Talk:Telemachus

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with Telemachus, Laertes (Odysseus' father) and a local prophet named Halitherses, killed them all save Medon, who had been polite to Penelope, and Phemius, a local singer who had been forced to help the suitors against Penelope.

This is incorrect. Halitherses and Laertes took no part in the fight against the suitors, although Eumaeus, the swineherd did. --Ed Poor

Telemachus (also transliterated as Telemachos or Telémakhos; literally, "far-away fighter") is a figure in Greek mythology, the son of Odysseus and Penelope. His part in the saga of Odysseus was described by Homer in the epic poems of the Iliad and the Odyssey.

I believe that this may be slightly off on two counts. Firstly, Telemachus played no part in the actual peom of the Iliad. Secondly, I do not think the name translation is correct. The words for 'fighter' and 'battle' share the same 'μάχ-' stem, but the word for fight is the base for the word fighter, as in English. The away/from difference is implicit but equally valid. Whether Odysseus named his son after peace or war is important. If someone who has recently studied ancient Greek could clarify if would be great. --Heywood

I have not changed the article (because I cannot locate my source references), but I would suggest for consideration the difference in "applied names" versus "role names", to whit: "far-away fighter", "far fighter", and "one who fights (μάχ, μαχητής) from a distance/from afar (Τηλέ)" is the older "role name" for the younger "applied name" of 'τοξότης', or "archer / bowman". In other words, in that culture, Odysseus didn't name his son "far fighter" or "far from battle" so much as he did "Archer", which of course Telemachus was. Also, while hardly authoritative, I must add that I used to work in Brazil with a "Telêmaco", the name's Portuguese variant, and he insisted his name meant "Archer". As I said, just something to consider.--[(User: not logged in)] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.200.118.5 (talk) 11:38, 9 August 2013

In Ithaca, Penelope was fending off countless suitors. Odysseus returned and disguised himself as an old man or a beggar and saw that she was faithful to him, pretending to knit a burial shroud (for they claimed he must be dead) and claiming she would choose one suitor when she finished. Every night she undid part of the shroud. Odysseus watched the suitors drink and take advantage of his family's hospitality, then took off his disguise and, with Telemachus and Eumaeus the swineherd, killed them all save Medon, who had been polite to Penelope, and Phemius, a local singer who had been forced to help the suitors against Penelope. Alternatively, he (or Penelope at the prompting of Athena) challenged the suitors to an archery contest and killed them after winning. In an alternate version, Odysseus tested his wife's loyalty by claiming she had moved their bed (which had a tree as a bedpost). She denied doing so and Odysseus knew she was loyal.

I don't see how this is relevant. It could be easily condensed down to just the part where Telemachus participated and then if the person wanted to learn more about the Odyssey (and the background information), then redirect them there. The last sentence is especially irrelevant. Ambush Commander

I'm deleting the final paragraph for its editorializing (and incorrect) POV:

"Telemachus however does not greatly achieve manhood in accordance with the Greek tradition of hospitality, and it's debatable whether or not he is a 'man' by the end of the epic. His main act of maturation is when he seeks to prevent the suitors from marrying his mother, Penelope."

I am confident that there is not a single work of scholarship out there that supports this view. Even before he leaves Ithaca, we witness (in Book 1) Telemachus' nascent maturation when he rebukes his mother and assumes a place above her in the household. In the Telemachy, Telemachus leaves home for the first time; at the respective homes of Nestor and Menelaus, he witnesses the proper relationship between guest and host that is so lacking in Ithaca; whereas before his journey, Telemachus demanded that the suitors leave, but was unable to enforce this demand, upon returning, he is takes part in killing the suitors. This final episode -- inasmuch as it involves killing men in armed conflict -- is a close approximation to going to war (another part of what "makes a man, a man," as it were). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.81.182.113 (talk) 17:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Are you using the Odyssey or are you also including other Greek myths? I also read that Telemachus means "The final battle" and that as Odysseus turned aside his plow at the ninth or tenth furrow, so it's an omen of when the final battle for Troy will be. I think I read this in Robert Graves' "The siege and fall of Troy"

Spoiler

I think the page needs a spoiler alert. Fuzzibloke 08:15, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Really? The story is like what? 3000 years old. 17:41, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Merge Telemachus/Telemachy articles?

Each is a lowly stub on its own. What do you think?Ifnkovhg 22:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd merge Telemachy into Odyssey, rather than here. There's enough scholarship on the Telemachy as a discrete unit that someone could write an article about it; whether Wikipedia really needs such an article is an open question. --Akhilleus (talk) 04:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Correct etymology

I removed the "trivia" section with its incorrect etymology. I inserted the correct etymology in a footnote. Ifnkovhg 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's one interpretation, but you gave no citation to say why yours would be "correct" so I'm adding back in the other one. Perhaps he was named Far-away Battle, because his father was fighting far away. 151.197.161.232 (talk) 13:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Sexual relationship with Nestor's son? Nonsense.

There was no citation given, and I mentioned the point to my AS Classical Civilisation tutor (we're studying the role of Telemachus in the Odyssey at the moment) and he could find no evidence to Perestrius getting jiggy with Telemachus at all. Thus I have removed the excerpt. Racooon (talk) 20:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I removed the Iliad section.

The stuff about Odysseus/Telemachus/Palamedes does not appear in the Iliad.

No, but the material you removed seemed to be a confused reference to events that occurred before the Trojan War and that were probably described in a cyclic epic. It would be worth putting in a clear description of this story. 19:23, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Telemachy is the Oldest Known "Military Brat" Story in Literature

This is also seen by some as the oldest known tale, and myth, about the struggles of a "military brat" (child of a military family).

In modern Military brat literature and culture, the myth and tales of Telemachus are sometimes mentioned, as being informative of the age-old experience of paternal absence as fathers go off to war.

So this myth is still drawn-on today, in military brat literature and in military child psychology, as current communities of military children (and those who work with them) struggle with the same age-old issues.

See related Wikipedia articles about this thousands-years-old subculture, such as Military brat

98.245.148.9 (talk) 06:44, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Source missing

"One account states that Odysseus, in consequence of a prophecy that his son was dangerous to him, sent him away from Ithaca."

What's the source for this?

ICE77 (talk) 03:47, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Aristotle, Constitution of the Ithacans

The original source for Telemachus marrying Nausicaa seems to be Aristotle's Ἰθακησίων Πολιτεία, which does not survive but is cited by Eustathius in Odyss. π, 118 p. 1796 Rom., where he relates the marriage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:900:1021:89C2:697F:CB75:6ED4 (talk) 18:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

pronounciation

from my (limited) understanding of ancient greek phonetics the pronounciation appears to be incorrect. Shouldn't it be more-or-less [tɛː'lemakos]?-- Dr.üsenfieber (talk) 06:35, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

The pronunciation given is the standard English one. It is indeed not correct for Ancient (or modern) Greek.--Ermenrich (talk) 13:29, 29 May 2020 (UTC)