Talk:Temasek Secondary School

Vote for Deletion

keep. TEMASEK Secondary School... it is NOT located at BEDOK but it is located at 600 upper east coast rd. 4 actresses have comed from this school. they are: Wong Li Lin, Joanna Peh, Fann Wong, Ivy Fann Wong has acted in hollywood with Jacky Chan and Owen Wilson in Shang Hai Nights. The name TEMASEK was formerly Singapore's name. it means a seaport. AMANDA CHARLENE

Why has this page not been deleted? The vote was 11-7 against. Exploding Boy 06:44, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Deletion policy:

At the end of five days, if a "rough consensus" has been reached (some would call this a 2/3 majority) to delete the page, the page will be removed. Otherwise the page remains.

11-7 is only 61%. -- Tim Starling 07:02, Apr 25, 2004 (UTC)

A "rough" consensus. I think there's room for interpretation there, particularly given that it's already been decided that schools are not Wikipedia material in and of themselves. The city I live in contains hundreds of elementary, junior high and high schools, the prefecture thousands (let alone the country). And that's just the official schools; then there are cram schools, training schools, minor colleges, hairdressing schools, dog grooming schools... Should I add them all too? And I ask this not to be sarcastic but because this is already what's beginning to happen (see VfD for the latest one). Exploding Boy

It was deleted, and I requested it be undeleted on Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion. Angela undeleted it. See Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion/undeleted.

It is completely untrue to say that "it's already been decided that schools are not Wikipedia material in and of themselves". There is no reason not to have articles on schools simply because they are schools. If you want to write articles about schools, yes, feel free to do so. I think there are more important things you could be spending your time on, but if that's what you want to do, that's fine. Make sure the info you include can be verified against a reliable source. --Camembert

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 10:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Needs major cleaning up

The article's tone is inappropriate at some parts (written promotionally), there are grammatical errors here and there and there are errors in Wiki markup. Also, some sections are simply listing information without any sources or elaboration, especially the amenities and achievements section (which should simply be summarised, why are we listing every single award won by this school?). It may be useful to refer to how other articles about schools in Singapore are written, such as this. AngelSL (talk) 13:30, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I am not comparing to any school in Singapore but rather schools in general. Most school articles that (at least to me) are of higher quality do not list achievements. Instead, they simply have a few paragraphs about them. For amenities, some schools with notable campuses may have a section on it, but (being a student of this school) I do not feel that our campus warrants its own section. Perhaps a subsection. As for removing the History/Achievements/etc, I will undo those edits and tag them appropriately. My apologies. AngelSL (talk) 08:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

After a little.. looking around, I do notice that opinions differ quite a lot on whether there should be lists of achievements, CCAs and awards. My PoV is that we should not list every single achievement, CCA or award (Wikipedia:INDISCRIMINATE) but rather summarise then and perhaps highlight some important/prestigious CCAs/awards/achievement. As for amenities, I reiterate my point above; TMS (from my experience) does not have a notable campus and I do not feel it is worth including as its own section (again, Wikipedia:INDISCRIMINATE). However, again, opinions differ about this, especially for schools/Singapore schools, and I feel a general agreement should be reached about this so there can be some consistency among the articles. AngelSL (talk) 09:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with AngelSL. The listing of every achievement, no matter how minor, is problematic. I think that the whole list should be culled for favour of only those awards that are themselves notable. If other schools also have coverage of nonnotable awards then... WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.

I also have a particular problem with the President's Challenge section, also; we don't provide details regarding where students hold their formals, what stunts happened on the last day of term or what fundraising activities happened during the year. It's trivial. ˜danjel[ talk | contribs ] 10:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks your your replies. I'm still not entirely clear on how the page should be cleaned though; discussion is below. AngelSL (talk) 08:24, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Listing of all achievements, etc.

(Moved from WP:WPSCH/H)

Is there a general consensus about whether we should go about listing out every single achievement and award won by the school? This has been a problem among quite a few Singapore schools, where opinions differ (quite greatly I might add) about whether those things should be included wholly or simply summarised (perhaps highlighting some notable achievements or the like). An example would right now be Temasek Secondary School, where a discussion is currently going on.

Also, I think Temasek Secondary School is no longer a Stub and should be reclassified into Start/something higher. Would someone kindly take a look at it and provide comments as well? Thanks. AngelSL (talk) 09:13, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

This article has a whole host of problems , including lists of trivia about the campus facilities.and must be heavily edited to conform with WP:WPSCH/AG. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:30, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for your comments! Any idea on how to begin cleaning it up? AngelSL (talk) 08:24, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

• Read WP:WPSCH/AG.
• Everything that has been tagged should be removed (unless some significance can be shown, i.e., that they are significant noteworthy awards). Some parts may deserve to be written as prose with selected examples (i.e., the musicals section could be rewritten to say that the school puts on a musical once a year, in the past, these musicals have been entitled blah blah blah).
• If you want to expand the article, I suggest copying it over to your userspace and expanding it there per WP:DRAFT. That way, you can ask for advice and comments on your work. ˜danjel[ talk | contribs ] 08:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

After pruning, turn any long bulleted lists left in to {{flatlist}} or prose. reduce all the long lists preceded by a year sub heading in to just a brief description that the school has won many awards for... including gold and silver medals, etc. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:33, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. I'll follow through soon. AngelSL (talk) 15:26, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Juinnano:  NO . Articles on wikipedia are encyclopedic, and not for promotional purposes. Wikipedia is WP:NOTADVERTISING and WP:NOTWEBHOST. Noone, whether they are wikipedia editors, or representative of subjects of wikipedia articles WP:OWN any article. The school itself has absolutely no say as to what should or should not be on this article.

Further, any article on wikipedia can be edited by anyone. All articles must comply with the various policies on wikipedia (which User:Kudpung and I have argued above and User:AngelSL seems to be following) and school articles should comply with the consensus determined guidelines at WP:WPSCH/AG. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 12:52, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

My point exactly. It is really not up to the school how they want their wiki article to look like; that is something they can do on their own website. I also feel that my removal of the entire awards, achievements and amenities sections was not in error of any policy (even if it was, WP:IAR); it will get summarised into prose eventually, so there. I'll leave them there for now so that it'll be easier to summarise them into prose whenever someone finds time to do so. As for your question, I happen to be from lower secondary, but this is really not the place to talk about this. AngelSL (talk) 15:26, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Here, here. If you need any help with anything, can get in touch with me. If he doesn't mind my speaking for him, I'm sure User:Kudpung is happy to help also. Otherwise, he and I have agreed to keep an eye on things but sort of leave this in your hands. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 15:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! AngelSL (talk) 04:00, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

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