Talk:Tenet (film)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Some Dude From North Carolina (talk · contribs) 00:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Nice of you to pick up this assessment and review. Looking forward to your comments. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:00, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Infobox – Cast

• The billing block lists Warner Bros. Pictures as a distributor but not a production company.
  • Warners and Syncopy are the producers and distributors, this should be in the lead and the Infobox. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    • Is there a source that Warners is a producer? The billing block credits them as distributor only. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
      • My screen is currently printing out the producers as Warners and Syncopy on one line, followed by the next line which lists Warners as the distributor. Is that what you are getting on your screen as well? ErnestKrause (talk) 16:54, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
        • Yes, the infobox says Warners is a producer and a distributor. I'm saying that the poster's billing block lists Warners as only a distributor, not a producer. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:03, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
          • There seem to be multiple sites which give Warners and Syncopy as the producers like this one [1]. If you want me to add reliable cites on this then let me know and I'll add a cite or two. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:15, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
            • I would trust the poster's billing over fandom sites. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 18:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
              • Poster seems to prefer Syncopy as the producer. Changing Infobox now. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:12, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• Please move claims/citations in the infobox to the body of the article (see MOS:INFOBOXREF).

• Current version of Infobox should be without citations. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

• I suggest including, in some way, the distributor (Warner Bros. Pictures) in the lead.

• Added. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

• The comma after "positive reviews from critics" is not necessary.

• Remove extra comma. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

• In the plot summary, "which can" should be "that can".

• Presently reads: "that can invert the entropy". ErnestKrause (talk) 16:16, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

• Great job on the plot summary! Even with a complicated story, it passes the criteria.

Production

Production part one

• "makes reference" → "refers"
  • Refers is better. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:13, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• Avoid the terms "his own" and "their own" by removing "own".
  • Sometimes its needed like: "their own stunts." ErnestKrause (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• "and United States" → "and the United States"
  • Add def article. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• Add a hyphen between "cost effective".
  • Done. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• "an Mi-8" → "a Mi-8"
  • Done. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
• "tape his own in studio" → "tape his own in a studio"
  • Which subsection is this? ErnestKrause (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    • #Music Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 14:53, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Done. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:17, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
• "which plays over the film's closing credits." – citation needed
  • Which subsection is this?. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    • #Music Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 14:53, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
      • Added citation. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:17, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Production part two

• Because of the this source, the budget of "$200 million" should be "$160–200 million". Change this in the infobox as well.
  • The link you are giving is from 2010 and for Inception, not Tenet. The Variety cite given is for $200 million from a 2020 article seems reliable. I have switched the edit to your version, though Inception number you are using do not seem the best fit for these numbers. I can change it back as needed. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "and an allusion to the Sator Square" – citation needed for this claim
  • Sheperd article cite added. ErnestKrause (talk) 15:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Shree Vardhan Tower was chosen instead of Antilia" – can you elaborate on why Antilia was an option in the first place? Or does this mean that a scene in the film takes place in Antilia but was shot in Shree Vardhan Tower? If this is the case, please make this clearer.
  • This was a situation of an initial choice for location being changed for a better choice for location of filming. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:11, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Shree Vardhan Tower was chosen instead of Antilia, as the latter had too high security; the National Liberal Club took the place of Sotheby's, whose management refused to participate; and they chose Cannon Hall after Thornhill Primary School in Islington and Channing School had been deemed unsatisfactory. Prop prototypes were often 3D printed. Costume designer Jeffrey Kurland and his team cut and stitched the clothing in the United States, manufacturing it for the main cast and thousands more." – unsourced
  • Add cite. Motram, p37. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:11, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• There was an entire press tour for this film, with dozens of interviews. Surely #Writing can be expanded.
  • Writing section expanded with quote on the science writing by Nolan for the film. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:20, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Nolan and Crowley traveled to scout for locations in February and April 2019. Disappointed with the Royal Swedish Opera as a potential spot for the Kyiv Opera House, Crowley switched it to the Linnahall, which fit his affinity for Brutalist architecture." – unsourced
  • Cite added. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:28, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
• "a crew of 250 people" – Pattinson said they had a crew of "around 500 people", not 250.
  • Go with Pattinson on this. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:26, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "on a soundstage in Los Angeles" – source?
  • This is the Warners soundstage documented in the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• Filming taking place in the Solent, the Reform Club, and Locanda Locatelli needs a source.
  • Shorten sentence. Identify Italy and England as principal shooting locations. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:38, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Hawthorne Plaza Shopping Center functioned as the interior set of an icebreaker and a shipping container." – source?
  • Cite added. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:28, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
• "October saw them in" – this sounds weird for ESL speakers.
  • Change odd wording to use prepositional phrase first for change of filming location. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:31, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Four Boeing CH-47 Chinooks were loaned out for four days. Outside shots of a tunnel were done in the desert, while the cavernous insides of the Hypocenter were fashioned on Warner soundstage 16, their largest with 32,130 square feet." – source?
  • Cite added for soundstage. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Tenet wrapped on September 21, less than ninety days after starting." – none of this is mentioned here
  • That was the Mumbai date of wrap, as the film kept shooting in LA after that until November. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:36, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "65 mm film" – the source says 70 mm film
  • There were 3 negative formats which were used in filming, which were eventually edited into single format copies for distribution. Different parts of the film were filmed using different negative sizes, one of which was 65 mm. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "To ensure proficiency in handling firearms, Washington and Pattinson attended the Taran Tactical firing range in Simi Valley. They also did some of their own stunts. Over one hundred watercraft were recruited, together with two F50 catamarans, the megayacht Planet Nine (onto which a Mi-8 helicopter would land), icebreakers, speed- and fishing boats, and a cargo tanker." – source? This only mentions the Planet Nine.
  • This edit by a previous editor appears to name some of the watercraft visually identified in the Plot section and re-listed here. I could document one or two of them if you prefer, and trim the rest of them out of the section. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:34, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
• "brought through Denmark, Estonia, and Italy" – This does not mention Italy.
  • Cite added. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:43, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
• "DNEG created about 280 VFX shots." – source?
  • New cite added. Discuss size of staff at DNEG needed to make the film work. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:35, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• "Sound designer Richard King sent a team to Eagle Mountain to record the Chinooks and Mi-8, and to Southampton for the F50 catamarans. Others were hired for the aural atmosphere of Oslo, Mumbai, and Tallinn. King got the audio of both live and blank automatic weapon rounds at a gun range in San Francisquito Canyon and rented a runway to test how the vehicles sounded." – most of this is unsourced
  • Add cite from Motram book p146. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:43, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Production part three

• "Prop prototypes were often 3D printed. Costume designer Jeffrey Kurland and his team cut and stitched the clothing in the United States, manufacturing it for the main cast and thousands more." – still unsourced

Release

• Some Dude From North Carolina Music section is done. I may be away for some of this week-end, otherwise ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:04, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Comments

• "including Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, and the United Kingdom" – is this necessary?
  • Shorten the list. It was world-wide distribution. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• Surely #Marketing_and_promotion can be expanded. See this article as an example.
  • Added short expansion. Would like to add more here for stats of the distribution costs if I can get reliable sources. (By the way, nice going on the El Royale page). ErnestKrause (talk) 17:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Reception

• "$200 million" → "$160–200 million" (see my comments above in #Production; also cite the sources from that section)
• "could push" should be in past tense.

 Done Chompy Ace 13:14, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

• "$6.7 million" – this should be "$6.6 million" per Monday finals.
• "$4.7 million" – this should be "$4.6 million" per Monday finals.
• "$3.4 million" – this should be "$3.3 million" or "$3.35 million" per Monday finals.
  • Corrected the numbers for all 3 of the above. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:05, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
    • You should change the citations as well. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 03:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
• The second, third, and fourth paragraphs of the critical response section should be written to meet WP:RECEPTION.
  • Current version is organized as aggregators, followed by positive reviews, then moderate and qualified reviews, to negative reviews. This is fairly conventional at Wikipedia as organizing the content's of this section according to quality of reception by critics. If parts of the wording in any of the reviews need to be shorten or revised, then let me know. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:09, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
• In the accolades table, the year column should become a "date of ceremony" column. The first column also needs "!scope = row |" and references should be centered. Nominees should be sorted by last name. See List of accolades received by The Hateful Eight as an example of how this table should look.
  • Updated column on Dates. The rest of the upgrades I think could be done if someone takes up an FA for this article in the future, though this nomination is for GAN. I could split that section for further development as a separate page by someone interested to make it a featured list page. ErnestKrause (talk) 18:33, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

References

 Working

• Citations to The Secrets of Tenet should include a page number. See The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and Jojo Rabbit as different examples on how you can do this.
  • Cites to this book are reduced now from over 25 down to 10 or less. There is some rewriting I am doing for some of the sections which use this reference and I plan more rewrites for the Casting section as well. Since its under 10 cites now for this reference, I can suggest to move forward at this time since I am agreeing with you that this reference has been over-cited by the previous editors. Its 10 or less cites at this time. ErnestKrause (talk) 16:20, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
    • The issue was not that the book was overcited but that the citations need page numbers. The remaining 10 citations to the book still need page numbers. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
      • There appear to be better cites for a lot of this material, and I'll keep going through it. I do not have this book in my collection, and may need to see if its in one of the local public libraries. If you have access to this book then it might help. I have cut down the number of cites to this book from over 25 to under 10 cites. Still continuing on it since I agree with your comment. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:19, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
        • You can use the Google preview to find the page where the cited claims are located. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 17:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
          • Some Dude From North Carolina All of those cites have been upgraded now to live web cites. Ready for next set of edit comments when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Some Dude From North Carolina All edits for all the sections above should be up to date. Ready for next set of edit requests when available. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:45, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Progress

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

03:26, 7 March 2022 (UTC): I am failing the article for a variety of reasons. My main concern is its size. Tenet's release was a massive one and the cast and crew participated in an accordingly huge press tour. There are hundreds of interviews with the cast describing the pre-production phase and the casting process. There is also a highly-detailed book that I believe includes dozens of in-depth details about the production. Now, all of those materials do not need to be added for this to be a good article. But they do need to be at least partially present. #Filming, for instance, is primarily a list of shooting locations without coverage of why they were chosen or what makes them notable. #Accolades should be addressed as well (the "2021"s should be actual dates of when ceremonies took place). I still believe the critical response section should be rewritten (see example). There are also a lot of unsourced claims in this article. I have tagged them but there are enough to warrant a fail based on WP:GAFAIL. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk)