Talk:Terry Hershner

AfC version of article.

A draft of an extended version of this article can be found at User:ElectricTerry/Terry Hershner. It may be written by Terry himself, which is why I'm hesitating on bringing it across. If any neutral editors want to see if there's any material there that can be used here, please feel free. Rankersbo (talk) 23:30, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Joined the majority of information from User:ElectricTerry/Terry Hershner and removed inaccurate information from the original article, such as from Tampa, FL. 2goldendogs (talk) 17:18, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

First cross-country trip?

I labeled "first" as dubious for two reasons. First, Kanichi Fujiwara is well documented as doing it a decade prior on an electric moped. If we're disallowing this as the actual "first" because a moped is not a motorcycle, this is problematic definitional problem that is explored at Talk:Motorcycle#We should add a definition section. Second, the claim is sourced to 24-27, only one of which backs this up with the following:

"...unofficially become the first person to complete a cross-country trip on an electric motorcycle. ... We say unofficially because we’re not yet sure if this was a documented drive or even if Guinness was on hand to judge the event for the record books." (InsideEVs)

This is pretty weak for such a claim. Is there anything else to substantiate this? If not the claim should be struck from the article. — Brianhe (talk) 21:29, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

For the first part, the NHTSA defines motorcycles and motor-driven cycles in CFR 571.3, which is then used in the FMVSS, DOT regulations, and is adopted or adapted by many state DMVs for licensing and registration purposes. The Yamaha Passol is rated at 0.58 kW = 0.78 hp. With less than 5 brake horsepower, the Passol falls under the NHTSA's definition for a motor-driven cycle (not a moped as described in the article), which typically prohibits it from being operated on interstate highways. With respect to Kanichi's much earlier crossing, his trip is distinctly different from Terry's, as it was executed at a pace more similar to a a cross-country bicycle trip than to a conventional motor vehicle trip. The notability of Terry's trip is to show that a heavily modified electric motorcycle can have similar touring capabilities to a conventional gas motorcycle.

• http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/faq%20site/pages/page3.html
• http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.3
• http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp.edgesuite-staging.net/global/news/2001/10/24/tms-05.html

For the second part - it may be best to just strike the word "officially", as the trip was not officiated. (Is it standard for such a trip to be officiated? I recall reading that Kanichi did his trip with his wife riding support, but was it officiated in any way?) Terry's trip was reasonably well-covered by EV press outlets (linked in the article), Terry tracked his GPS position with glympse, and he typically charges at ChargePoint stations that should have logs of the location and charge datetime.

Protomech (talk) 23:54, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

It's all about what sources say about this particular claim. If there was a source saying this was the first cross-country two-wheel EV trip utilizing Interstate freeways, let's use it. I think this will be more productive than chasing definitions. — Brianhe (talk) 01:29, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Terry's Comments to try to help all the confusion mentioned above and fix errors in the article

Hi Brian, this is Terry. It was brought to my attention that I should visit this page to help with proper documentation or issues. I am not a Wikipedia editor, and have no idea the right way to do this or help, so I will comment the best I can here and leave the experts to fix the article if they see fit. But to make the article accurate and prevent the further spread of false information I thought it was important to comment here right away.

I've never lived in Tampa. I'm not sure where the journalist in the first article got that information from. I did pass through Tampa on my first cross country attempt. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion. Regardless the rest of the articles you have referenced that list my hometown list it as Orlando. So of all the articles to cite, the only one mentioning Tampa instead of Orlando was just strange luck I guess.

No record have I ever paid a Guinness Representative to be present. So the InsideEv's statement above is correct. But there were a few thousand people following my live GPS tracker I use with every run, and many who met up with me along my journeys and posted to social media. By 2013 many journalists followed my GPS tracker and my social media. The social media is time stamped and available to view today with pictures of places and people I met along the way.

While there was at least one that you referenced, Kanichi, and those of us in the electric vehicle community (I was the forum moderator of elmoto.net back in 2009) had heard of others crossing the country on electric scooters, the EV media experts were positive it had never been done on an electric motorcycle.

I noticed some confusion also above on the difference between a bicycle, a scooter or moped, and a motorcycle. I'm probably not the best to explain it but I'm sure if 1000 people were asked, there would be 100% consensus that if you step through it (instead of swinging a leg over), and if it can't travel at highway speeds it's a scooter and not a motorcycle. I'm sure electric bicycles and for sure had crossed the country before, just like the electric scooter, but this was to be the first time an electric motorcycle (ruggedly built and capable of highway speeds) was to go from coast to coast. Things like electric wheelchairs, skateboards, scooters or anything else that might be electric and have 2 wheels were completely separate from this attempt. I hope that helps. Keeping the reference to global circumnavigation and Kanichi in this article is up to the discretion of you and the Wikipedia community, but it has little relevance here as I am not a scooter rider and have never had a scooter. And travelling the country on an electric scooter that has a maximum speed of 19 mph is not even in the same category as the record the Moto-Electra team and myself were trying to set. But you think readers would like the information and link than by all means keep the reference in the article. It just is worded to sound like it is a similar 2 wheeled electric vehicle and might be a source of confusion to think this was legally capable of travelling on US highways.

If you need help with more references, you can just search google for others besides #'s 24-27 that you mentioned. I know here are a few dozen articles by different journalists that I've read over the last year. Many were able to follow the journey live last year, message and call both before and after, and a few that met me along the way during the trip. I'll list a few here, but you can search google for more if you need.

http://www.plugincars.com/electric-motorcycle-pioneers-blazing-electric-trails-127426

These two were listed earlier in the article. References 4 and 5, but were not part of 24-27. Should they be referenced again?

http://gas2.org/2013/06/06/terry-hershner-completes-first-cross-country-trip-on-electric-motorcycle/

http://evnewsreport.com/terry-hershner-sets-record-first-across-america-on-electric-motorcycle/6037/

Haha this guy writes as if he is overworked and hasn't slept, but it's pretty funny. He has been on top of electric motorcycle news for a decade and was well aware there was no record set prior to this for cross country on an electric motorcycle (cars, scooters, mopeds, and bicycles are viewed separate) and that we both were trying to set it.

http://esbk.co/2013/06/05/racing-across-america-what-do-i-think/

And there are a few hundred forum members who followed and posted live updates here:

http://www.elmoto.net/showthread.php?2655-Terry-quot-Off-the-Grid-quot-goes-XC-on-a-Zero/page16

Anyway Brian, I hope that helps! Let me know if I can help with anything else.

- Terry ElectricTerry (talk) 17:07, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Terry, thanks for engaging here. "Tampa" has been removed from the article as an uncontroversial change, but left Florida sourced to the Torque News. If something with the correct city comes along, we can add it. Further discussion not directed specifically to this article is at your user talkpage. — Brianhe (talk) 18:01, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok great! Thank you Brian! - Terry ElectricTerry (talk) 18:15, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Education

Contrary to this change, Orlando Sentinel states that Hershner did not graduate from North Carolina State University[23]. — Brianhe (talk) 22:14, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Brian, I changed it to reflect the Orlando Sentinel article. We are also working to find some print sources that verify Terry's involvement in Theta Tau Engineering Fraternity and his philanthropic efforts while at NC State. I assume that a source does not have to be digitized in order to be considered a legitimate source. Dr. Timothy LeCroy (talk) 16:57, 15 November 2014 (UTC)