Talk:Tex Morton

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@InternetArchiveBot a full length biography of Morton is to be published early in 2023. google Tex morton andrew smith. some links in this article appear to be somewhat dubious and the photo re voting is not Morton. 118.209.118.219 (talk) 05:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

fake photo

the photo of the cowboy in Sydney is definitely not Tex Morton. This is discussed in depth in my recent full-length biography of Tex, which MIGHT be published in the future. It corrects common misconceptions, some of which might be in this article. 118.209.114.93 (talk) 08:08, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Pee Wee king

the reference to Pee Wee King should refer to me (Andrew smith, 2002). I was the first person to learn about the association from Smoky Dawson and contacted King directly. your reference to Morton touring with King should refer to me. 118.209.118.219 (talk) 16:03, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

fake photo again

the photo of "Tex Morton" outside the polling booth is most likely not Morton. the late David Crisp who had a large copy of the photo and I examined it closely and we believe it's not Tex. about time someone fixed this. Andrew smith 118.209.82.31 (talk) 08:27, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect Referencing

You should use PRIMARY REFERENCES. All references to Colin Larkin are secondary references and appear to have been taken from articles about Tex Morton written by me. The reference to Pee Wee King, for example should read Pee Wee King, letter to Andrew Smith, November 1989. (I'm the only person who found this out, from a comment by Smoky Dawson.) The reference to Tex migrating to Australia in 1932 should be cited to either Eric Watson or myself. At one time the references were OK until someone who seems to be ignorant of primary sources stupidly attributed them to Larkin. I have written a full-length biography of Tex Morton, involving country music experts and his family, and research spanning some 30 years, and am disappointed with this article. I was going to update and extend it, but why bother when someone will incorrectly re-reference it?

The reference to his birth should cite his birth certificate - not the reference you cite. I have a copy sent to me by his sister. The reference to his Dude Ranch is useless, since it doesn't link Morton to Agnes Banks, Penrith. You should cite Gordon Spittle, the Tex Morton Songbook, 2008. The list goes on ...

And the "election photograph" is a well-known (amongst country music experts) as incorrect in stating it's Morton. It appeared in The Labor Daily, September 17, 1934 - when Morton was most likely still in New Zealand. When "blown up" in high-definition, the face and body shape do not appear to be Morton's. Of all the photos of Morton in the 1930s, why include this dubious one?

 Andrew Smith 118.209.104.21 (talk) 04:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Andrew, here's some information that might help explain why this article cited Colin Larkin.

Per WP:PSTS, "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources, and to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources."

Per Wikipedia:PRIMARYCARE, "Many other primary sources, including birth certificates, the Social Security Death Index, and court documents, are usually not acceptable primary sources, because it is impossible for the viewer to know whether the person listed on the document is the notable subject rather than another person who happens to have the same name."

It's likely the most easily to access information about Morton was that written by Colin Larkin when the article was originally created.

Given your book only came out last year, it's possible no one has read it and taken the time to update this Wikipedia article yet. You could fix the errors you mentioned, and add yourself as a source (I see you did this already), but please keep in mind the below information.

Per Wikipedia:SELFCITE, "Using material you have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is relevant, conforms to the content policies, including WP:SELFPUB, and is not excessive. Citations should be in the third person and should not place undue emphasis on your work. You will be permanently identified in the page history as the person who added the citation to your own work. When in doubt, defer to the community's opinion: propose the edit on the article's talk page and allow others to review it. However, adding numerous references to work published by yourself and none by other researchers is considered to be a form of spamming."

Regarding the photo. You could remove it if you believe it shouldn't be in the article, but you should cite a source if you're going to make a claim that it isn't him. Just cite your book if there's no other information (I'd do this for you, but I don't have a copy of your book so can't confirm your claim). You should consider also contacting the libraries that are the source of the image, as they are the ones that provided the image with the caption that it was Morton.

I hope that is some help. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is edited by volunteers, and not many people may read the talk page here. If you need help, there's the Wikipedia:Teahouse, or you could ask on one of these projects who are relevant to this article: Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia, Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians. Jimmyjrg (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Jimmyjrg The reference to Pee Wee King was in published articles in the USA written by me snd easily accessible. I corresponded with King and was at the time the only person to discover this. Larkin could only have got this information from me and is thus a secondary source. I was insulted by Wikipedia referencing him when the primary source was me, as for the photo Australia's #1 old time country music expert had the original and its clearly not Morton, especially since he was in New Zealand in 1934. Just because some library mistakenly said it was Morton d make it correct. There are several photographs of people mistakenly identified as Morton. Even Morton's entry in the Australian Dictionary of Biography contains an error.

The book I wrote has been out for a year now and should be cited as a reference, as it's published by the University of Tennessee Press and is readily available. it was entered into the Belmont University country music book of the year, and took me some 35 years of research and over $4000 to write, involving interviews with his wife, sister, brothers, son, partner, Slim Dusty, Smoky Dawson etc. etc. There are over 1300 endnotes and is readily available on Amazon etc.

There are still errors and lots of missing information in this article, but I give up with Wikipedia, and am now very wary of trusting its accuracy. A fellow country music expert told me of being exasperated by Wikipedia's treatment of Buddy Williams. Older encyclopaedias had experts in their field writing articles, but this isn't the case with Wikipedia, and it sometimes shows.

'

/ 118.209.104.66 (talk) 08:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Poor Coverage

As someone who spent nearly 40 years of off and on research into the life of Tex Morton and whose full length biography of him was published in 2023 by the University of Tennessee Press, I find this article and some amendments to it shoddy and lacking in coverage. The persistent use of secondary sources by those who should know better is also poor and below par for an encyclopedia, and the removal of the citation to the book is also most unhelpful to the average reader. The book has been vetted by academics in the USA and Australia and has been entered in some prizes for country music history books. Those who have edited and altered sections in Wikipedia are, it seems, amateurs lacking in knowledge of country music and academic study. Very disappointing, but I'm ensuring through posts on social media that this entry is pretty well disregarded. Andrew Smith

https://www.amazon.com.au/Tex-Morton-Australian-Yodeler-International/dp/1621907767 118.209.75.232 (talk) 04:17, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Note that Wikipedia, by policy, largely relies on secondary sources. You can feel free to make constructive edits, rather that simply posting a sales link to your book. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 15:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi Andrew. You may have missed the previous message about this. If you sign up for an account with Wikipedia it will be easier to see when people reply to you.

As mentioned, Wikipedia relies on secondary sources.

While I'm sure your book is a great resource, it's only available at four libraries in Australia and three in New Zealand, so it might not have been read by the average editor of this article yet. If people don't have a copy of your book on hand then they won't use it as a source. Have you considered making a digital version available through the Australian National edeposit?

Currently, the Tex Morton Wikipedia article contains a lot of unsourced information and likely needs a complete rewrite to make sure the information is Verifiable. Jimmyjrg (talk) 23:35, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Jimmyjrg My Tex Morton book is easily obtainable through booksellers and online (Amazon), and has been published by the very respectable University of Tennesssee Press. it's not my fault that some Australian libraries don't stock it, even when offered free copies. The NLA requires extensive documentation erc to donate a book to them, so I won't bother, whereas libraries in NZ snapped it up.

I could write a much better entry on Morton for Wikipedia, but someone would likely change all the references. 118.209.68.55 (talk) 23:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

references (again)

Citing Allmusic as a reference is silly, since better references were originally listed. Be careful of citing internet references as many contain incorrect information. it took me years to separate likely fact from fiction. even Morton's references in the Australian Dictionary of Biography contains an error. Andrew Smith 118.209.76.173 (talk) 06:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)