Talk:The Artist in the Ambulance

Under a Killing Moon erroneously redirects here

I'll put up a temporary disambiguation on the Under a Killing Moon page, and may eventually write the computer game its own write-up - unless someone more qualified steps up. The person who linked this album to all the song titles, which aren't even links in this article, somehow has even less understanding of Wikipedia courtesy than I do. TorbenFrost 19:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

• All song titles serve as redirects to this album, have their own pages, or have been placed at the appropriate disambiguation pages.--Hraefen ^Talk 22:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Artist In the Ambulance.jpg

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Artist in the Ambulance/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 10:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

The image is appropriately tagged. Earwig finds no issues.

• This source says it comes from an anonymous source. I would suggest cutting this.

Removed. MusicforthePeople (talk) 15:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• What makes the following reliable sources?
  • euphoniczine.com

That's for an interview with a member of the band, which is fine per WP:ABOUTSELF. MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• • crossrhythms.co.uk

I found credentials for two of the writers (neither being the author of the review, annoyingly) and then hit a dead end. Removed. MusicforthePeople (talk) 17:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

There are a couple of other uses of the site still in the article; sorry, should have made it clear it's used more than once. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I just looked at the remaining one, it's an interview with two band members, so that should be fine per WP:ABOUTSELF. MusicforthePeople (talk) 18:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• • unearthed.com

That's for an interview with a member of the band, which is fine per WP:ABOUTSELF. MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• • zobbel.de

It's used by Template:Album_chart#UK_charts. If it wasn't reliable I wouldn't expect a widely used template to have it suggested. MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:07, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

See this discussion, which is the most recent I can find. I wouldn't call that a consensus for the Wikiproject but there is not much support expressed for it there and one editor recommends it should be marked as unreliable. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:15, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I've removed this. I'll have to raise this at WP:ALBUMS at some point then. MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:45, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• Per WP:RSMUSIC, only staff reviews should be used from AllMusic. I can't tell whether Johnny Loftus is staff; I've seen a staff tag on some AllMusic pages but there doesn't seem to be one on this review, or a profile link.

I haven't seen staff tags before on AM (I'll assume good faith that you have), only that separate the top review, presumably written by staff, from other user submitted reviews. As it turns out, he started as a musician and became a writer at the turn of the millennium: "...eventually back to Michigan, where he punched in at AMG and continued to offend as of 2004." His Muckrack page lists AM among other publications. MusicforthePeople (talk) 13:29, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

No, I got confused between this and another check I was doing. This is fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:35, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• I'll do some separate spotchecks, but in checking source reliability I noticed that FN 7 cites "In February and March 2002, Thrice toured with Anti-Flag; before or after every show on the tour, Thrice had a meeting with a representative of one of those labels." The source predates the tour, so can you confirm that the other source given does support this? Otherwise we should say "planned to tour" or something similar. Similarly, FN 56 & 57 cites "In April and May 2003, Thrice went on tour with the Used. During this tour, the band performed new material and played at Skate and Surf Fest." Both sources predate the tour so the wording should be changed to "planned". Can you check other examples of this? E.g. FN 59 looks like the same situation, and so do FNs 64 and 75.

I get where you're coming from; the problem is I've rarely found refs (in general, not just for this album) discussing tours in proper detail after they have happened, only refs for the announcements of the tours. The rare times I have, it's in vague terms, often merging several tours together or missing open acts or support slots, e.g. "They went on tour with bands X, Y and Z, N amount of years ago". I can verify they happend by looking at set lists people have posted or finding footage on YouTube (I realise neither of these are RSs), but there isn't really much else. If I add "planned" it would make it seem like they were going to go on these tours but didn't. MusicforthePeople (talk) 15:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I've seen "announced" used for this, which doesn't have the implication that it never happened, if phrased correctly. I don't think we can unequivocally say the tour happened, though -- I'm sure a ton of tours were announced in late 2019 or early 2020 that never happened because of COVID. The same problem comes up with release dates, which are easy to cite to announcements but hard to cite to backwards-looking sources -- e.g. see David Eppstein's comments here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I think I've fixed this. MusicforthePeople (talk) 18:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Thrice wanted to expand their musical palette but were unable to experiment due to the rushed nature of the process. Eddie Breckenridge attributed the lack of expansion from being on tour constantly and not having enough time to write." "Attributed the lack of expansion from" is a bit ugly. These sentences might be better combined. How about "Thrice wanted to expand their musical palette but were unable to experiment due to the rushed nature of the process, since they were on tour constantly and did not have enough time to write." I would have thought Breckenridge is a reliable enough source that we don't need to attribute him inline for this, which allows us to simplify the wording.

Done. MusicforthePeople (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• 'Guitarist Teppei Teranishi said they spent more time on structuring their songs because they used to "just throw songs together".' I don't follow this. He said they worked on structure now because they hadn't worked on structure in the past?

I think he meant they didn't put much effort into arranging songs for their previous releases, which they rectified for this album. I adjusted it. MusicforthePeople (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

It was "because" that was throwing me. I've tried another rewording; see if that's OK. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

That's good with me! MusicforthePeople (talk) 18:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• "he heard his back break": If your spine truly snaps, you're paralyzed, so we shouldn't make it sound like it's in Wikipedia's voice.. I gather it's sourced to Breckenridge's own statement in the podcast. I think it would be better to recast it to attribute it to him directly; e.g. 'In a 2021 interview he recalled that as soon as he freed the suitcase, "I heard my back break"' (or whatever wording he actually uses). And I saw in this source that he refers to it as aggravating an old skateboarding injury; might be best to bring that in too as clarification.

Done. MusicforthePeople (talk) 16:50, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• Why would him yelling lead to the band playing acoustic versions of the songs?

Removed. MusicforthePeople (talk) 16:50, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

It now says "Despite increasing pain, Breckenridge continued performing shows; the band decided to play several of the shows acoustically." If these two are unconnected I wouldn't put them in the same sentence -- maybe join the "increasing pain" bit with the previous sentence. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I had another look at the source (DVD documentary); expanded a little so hopefully it works better now. MusicforthePeople (talk) 18:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Breckenridge explained that the members were fans of jazz and the accompanying artwork": suggest "Breckenridge explained that the members of the band were...". Why is it relevant that they're fans of jazz?

Reworded. MusicforthePeople (talk) 14:53, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• I think the critical reception section is OK for GA, but once this review is completed you might take a look at WP:RECEPTION, which has some advice on structuring sections like this.

Spotchecks:

• FN 38 cites 'Jon Wiederhorn of MTV said the album blends thrash metal, hardcore punk, emo and pop punk; "often within a single song".' Verified, but I would extend the opening of the quote to before "thrash" -- you can't be blamed for not rephrasing the list of styles, but that makes it a direct quote so we should treat it as such.

Done. MusicforthePeople (talk) 15:36, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

• FN 41 cites "The Artist in the Ambulance opens with "Cold Cash and Colder Hearts", an aggressive track that showcases Teranishi's guitarwork and Kensrue's vocals." Verified.
• FN 30 cites "The songs "Motion Isn't Meaning" and "Eclipse" were recorded during the sessions but were left off the finished album." Verified.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Last fixes are good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:45, 23 September 2022 (UTC)