Talk:The Cheetah Girls (group)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comments

Ya some haters you have no proof that any of this is true Raven is a cheetah girl cause raven had to do the new season of thats so raven and that why she didnt go on tour but she had to do all the episodes so ya need to get your facts straight and stop posting lies cause ya know ya want to be a cheetah girl so if you do, you need to show some growl power ,Okay. And i know ya aint talking about my girl Chanel cause she is the best so ya need to stop hating on her , I bet she looks WAY better then you !!!

Ok whoever that was was really imature.Jtervin 07:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also I need help making a box for the new ¡When In Spain! Tour dates that I have posted ThanksJtervin 07:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I was just wondering who took the Adrienne and Raven thing off and why??Jtervin 07:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Can someone make their when in spain tour its own article

No, because 1)It hasn't started. 2)It wasn't/isn't a big tour. Tcatron565 17:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't someone add Raven to the list? She can't go on tour with the others because of her show That's so Raven, but she is still one of the Cheetah Girls! MaddieGa 22:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations

If no one cites these sources in 3 weeks (‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› ), they will be taken off along with the thing that needs sourcing. Tcatron565 17:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The illiteracy on this talk page is truly shocking. MelonSmasher 03:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Album Information

Can someone add in the 200-px Album Cover, I wasn't sure how to get it to work.

Thanks!

04:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)Findarto

For What??Jtervin 02:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Added Pages for Singles

I added pages for the new singles because I thought they were nessisary but I did NOT add them for the older singles. If anybody wants to do this, go ahead. I don't think anybody has to though. Also could somebody tell me how to edit the box at the bottom that labels Raven as a former member????? Jtervin 02:28, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I am currently adding pages for all of their singles. Jtervin 19:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

TO DO

• Add Pages for all singles (Done!!! Yey!)

• Add ALL of the albums into that box that The Cheetah Girls have released like The Cheetah Girls (album)

• Tell me how to fix the The Cheetah Girls box at the bottom. See Here:

• Get a newer photo of The Cheetah Girls to put on this page.

Jtervin 19:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I was trying to fix the infobox for their singles and screwed it up...sorry~!~ 69.47.130.72 17:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Band vs Group

Shouldn't this be entitled "Cheetah Girls (Group)" rather than band? They don't play any instruments do they? MelonSmasher 20:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Membership issues regarding the group

This is a continuation of a discussion that started in the discussion area for 'Cheetah Girls 2 (film)'

J:

I saw Deborah's dedication to the trio in her book series. First off, she wrote her first 4 books in 1999, then the next 4 in 2000, then 4 more in 2001, and her 13th in 2002.

Then came a 3-year break, in which production on the first movie had taken place. By then, the first 12 books of the Cheetah Girls series were placed in 3 thick volumes of 4 novels each.

She resumed the series in 2005, and it is in the 14th book that she thanks, if I can remember the exact quote, "my onscreen Cheetahs". She names the 3 who are on tour right now. The 15th and 16th books she finished in 2005 as well. These were not in separate novels; the 13th through 16th novels were part of the 4th big volume of the series.

Two things immediately come to mind: For one, Raven wasn't in the group at that time, and with her first solo campaign in 5 years under way (for the 2004 album This Is My Time), they did not know if she would return. For another, it was not yet known if there would be a sequel. Then again, maybe Deborah and Raven were not on good terms because of her limited commitment (or total lack thereof) at that time. Of course, With Raven's first 2 albums flopping badly (35,000 and 100,000), she really wanted this one to score. It didn't (250,000), despite her appearance in The Princess Diaries 2 at the time.

If there hadn't been a sequel, Raven could have been considered a former member from 2004 onward. The fact that she came back for the movie, and the possibility that she will return for the 3rd movie in 2008, makes her membership (including her absences) dubious. If she should turn in her Cheetah spots for good, or get bounced, then you can consider adding her to the former membership list, with the years 2002-2003 and 2006 next to her name. The same applies if Deborah finally decides it is better to have a fully-committed lead singer (for the real and fictional group) than to have a partially-committed leader. Again, a dangerous move it is to replace the lead singer.

Speaking of which, in that Good Day L.A. interview 12 Sept. with the trio, Sabrina mentioned that she met Kiely in the auditions on 17 Sept. 2002. I find it hard to imagine that they can go from auditions to filming in a single month (or less); but regardless, you might want to consider changing the year from 2003 to 2002 as the year the real group got started, since one can assume that the original quartet went to the recording studio before they got started on shooting the film.

Do you know that they hardly got noticed when the first album hit the racks? Despite grabbing 6.5 million viewers, the soundtrack EP debuted at #193 in late-August. It was not until late-November and early-December that it surged to the top 50. Then their version of the i5 song, "Cinderella", started kicking in at Radio Disney. Too bad it didn't make the Hot 100.

One other note: The fall 2006 tour was extended to 57 dates, ending December 12, last I checked. -CookyMonzta

I know what your saying but I think that we should wait until The Cheetah Girls's next album comes out, we see how it does and THEN decide if we think that raven should be considered part of the group. 65.60.164.62 23:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's not forget Raven's own solo album, set for Halloween. If it goes gold, will she think she does not need to be a part of this group anymore, under any circumstances? If it fails, like her first 3 (we will know by Christmas), will she seriously consider that the public is still not ready to accept her as a solo artist, on the same level as they would the original Cheetah quartet, and she decides to rejoin the trio in time for the recording sessions in January?

...But will the trio welcome her back? I doubt it, because they know that they must also prove that they can score a hit without the alpha Cheetah. All of the Cheetahs' top-20 Radio Disney hits since 2003 included Raven, including "Strut", #53 on the Billboard Hot 100. Their best effort without her, "I Won't Say (I'm In Love)", reached #30, the last spot on the Disney chart.

If the situation should arise, where Deborah, the trio, or Disney, decide that they want a fully-committed singer capable of replacing Raven (completely) as the alpha Cheetah, I would suggest, right now, that they consider Fefe Dobson. She was born in 1985, and she is mixed, as is the character Galleria. Fefe was recently dropped from her label (Island Records), just as they were about to release her 2nd album (which was not released in the U.S.). Check Fefe's Wikipedia bio. -CookyMonzta

Requiem for the original quartet: Raven quits

J. Tervin:

The dispute we had in mid-September, over Raven-Symone's dubious membership in the Cheetah Girls, is now ended. The bickering between us was obviously over nothing, because it was understood that Raven was not in the group at the time when the current tour began, but she was still a member, though an inactive member, because she never officially left the group. Because of that, it was pretty much assumed by everyone that she would be back to lead this group, perhaps to another possible gold or platinum album, when production for the third movie and its soundtrack was ready to begin.

That assumption no longer matters now. Go to the Pulse Music Board, and enlarge the Newsweek interview (9 October) appearing in the 141st reply (but hurry, and save it, before it disappears):

http://www.pulsemusic.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=1151274973&page=5

I checked the actual magazine itself, but strangely enough, it isn't there. But the Web site from which the article came has the same exact interview:

http://www.weeklyreader.com/wys/raven_interview.asp

I believe you will agree with me, that Raven can now be classified as a former member (2002-2003, 2006). Period. It is indeed official now. You can erase her status as a movie/soundtrack only member, because we know she sang in the group for those 2 movies and their soundtracks, and it is pretty much a foregone conclusion to many that her participation in the group, and contributions to the group when the movies were made, are the reasons that both soundtrack albums went double-platinum and gold. They are the only gold albums for this group right now, and Raven was in the group for both. But no more for her. She's done.

Notice that I labeled 2002 as the year when this group was created, or more accurately, transformed, from a 100% entirely fictional group in a series of books, to a real group of girls who sing, portraying a fictional group. In the Good Day L.A. interview that took place on 12 September (rewind the video and take another look at it), Sabrina Bryan noted that in 5 days (that is, 17 Sept.) it would be 4 years since she met Kiely Williams in the audition for this group.

In which case, the group was assembled and finalized in September, 2002. This is the actual beginning of this group, the real group, unlike what Adrienne Bailón explained in that same interview (unless you are referring to the contract that Hollywood Records gave them in 2005, separate from Raven's 2003 contract, which made them a separate entity). Raven was almost certainly hand-picked, by Deborah Gregory herself and/or other members of the Disney production crew. I would bet the kitchen sink on that, and I would also bet that she was selected well before the auditions for the remaining 4 members (including the twins), maybe even as early as mid-August, 2002, because in my opinion they almost certainly wanted a seasoned actress who could sing well and immediately sell this group to its viewers and even the consumers. With Raven already a Disney member, it was a no-brainer.

Of course, they couldn't find twins to play Aquanette and Anginette; so, when they selected Kiely, they rewrote the story of the first movie to make Aqua an only child, although it is never mentioned in either of the 2 movies. In my opinion, they could have had anyone play Angie, and they could still have that for the third movie. The same way they found Sabrina to play Dorinda, who is biracial in the books, they could have rewritten identical twins Aqua and Angie as fraternal twins for the movies.

Whether they bring back the twin sister for the 3rd movie remains to be seen. But it is the status of the fictional group's most important character, Galleria Garibaldi, that will determine the status of the real group. I said this before, and I wil say it again: I don't think the remaining trio can sell this group the way Raven sold it; not even Adrienne, who by nature of being the lead singer of 3LW will, for the moment, be the leader of this group; which at this point barely differs from 3LW, which is a problem for some who wonder whether 3LW and the Cheetahs are one and the same, despite the difference between the third members, Jessica Benson (3LW) and Sabrina Bryan (Cheetahs).

That, I believe, is primarily the reason why the Cheetahs' Christmas album failed (131,000). Without Raven to set them completely apart from 3LW, many probably considered them a continuation of 3LW, whose 2002 album A Girl Can Mack sold perhaps 170,000, a far cry from the 1.3 million of their 2000 debut, due in part to the acrimony in 2002 that led to Naturi Naughton's departure or dismissal.

With Raven out of the group for good, they are back to being what I call 3LW Redux. It is hard to tell whether the concert sellouts and extensions (now 80 dates, to conclude sometime in January, 2007) are due to the fact that, either the fans are supporting the franchise as a whole, or they're giving Raven the finger for skipping out on the group once again, like she did during their 2005 Christmas campaign.

Regardless, though they were a smash during that holiday tour, I believe that these same fans, who have packed the arenas nationwide this fall to see Adrienne, Sabrina and Kiely, and ask where Raven is (she really should give her fans a swan song and perform with them, even if it's only one concert date, maybe the last one), will not pack the record shops when the trio's next album arrives (their 4th as group members, their 2nd as a trio, counting the Christmas album, and the 7th for the 2 girls of 3LW). The success they had during the 2005 holiday season should have yielded well over 300,000 copies, despite the fact that it had been 2 years since they released an album, one that included Raven.

It didn't even sell half that many. That is why I believe Raven holds sway over the destiny of both the real group and the fictional group, and perhaps even the franchise itself. If Disney commences production on the third movie, having written Galleria out of the story, they are likely to lose quite a considerably large percentage of the group's fans. I wonder if, without Raven, the movie will be relegated back to television, because like I said before, I don't think anyone in the trio can sell this group the way Raven did. Raven played the leader of the (fictional) group, and was the leader of the (real) group!

Which is why they must find a replacement, one who can break the sway that Raven holds, one who has the skills and the will to sell this group as well as Raven did, if not better. Whoever is that replacement will be the alpha Cheetah Girl and will also get to play Galleria in the 3rd movie; and likewise, whoever is chosen to play Galleria will be the real group's new leader.

Light-skinned black or biracial (to conform with Deborah's character in the books and the first movie), born between 1984 and 1986, and with a good, strong voice (Raven's voice was easily the strongest of the 4), my first pick (once again) to replace Raven, make this trio a quartet again, and assume the fictional role of Galleria in the next movie, is Felicia Lynn Dobson.

This girl writes her own songs, plays guitar and plays keyboard and piano. She would bring an eclecticism to this group that I would say that even the group's creator would not have imagined. What she brings could also attract many more people outside of the group's longtime 7-to-14 fan-base.

Let us assume Fefe says yes (the odds are long against, but trust me, she may be the best choice out there right now), and joins the Cheetah Girls. Let her put her guitar or keyboard skills on display, live on stage or in the next film and/or album. That will almost single-handedly increase the group's small 15-to-29 fan-base. That alone will really separate this group from the current pantheon of bubblegum pop girl groups, without turning them into vixens on the level of the Pussycat Dolls (with Fefe in the Cheetahs, far from it).

I imagine that the songs she writes for this group (if they let her, and they'd better) will have more creativity than what the group's perennial writers have given them. I'd love to see what hip-hop soul veterans Adrienne and Kiely could do with a song that borders on something you'd find in the Lenny Kravitz or Joan Armatrading catalog (mixed with just a little pop to keep the mainstream happy), or even in the catalog of today's alt-rock, pseudo-pop or neo-soul artists, because that is what Fefe will bring to the Cheetah Girls; namely, unprecedented unpredictability, which I believe sells.

Once more, if Fefe were in this group right now, the trio would not be relegated to making remakes for their next album, their first non-Christmas, non-soundtrack album. Cyndi Lauper's "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun"? Nat King Cole's "Route 66"? Or that third song they've been singing on the tour? That is no way to sell a group trying to break out of the Disney mold and attract a mainstream beyond that mold, even while still being promoted by Disney.

Imagine if the Monkees were relegated to singing songs that have been already sung. They never would have ranked as the number 1 pop group in 1967. That is not saying whether the Cheetahs have that potential or not, but outside of the soundtracks, if I'm correct, every song the trio (that is, without Raven) has sung, since 2004, has been a remake, and except for a single week in the Radio Disney Top 30 ("I Won't Say (I'm In Love)", #30 in 2004 or 2005), none of the trio's songs have ever made that chart. Every Cheetah Girls track that made this chart included Raven.

Ironically, their most popular song was also a remake, "Cinderella" (recorded by i5 in 2000 and Play in 2002), and even more ironically, Raven was in the group at the time! They were lucky that far fewer people knew about this song than what the trio may be set to record for their 2007 album.

If Fefe were to come in before the 2007 studio album sessions were over, I'd bet good money they'd scrap all the remakes, and let Fefe (or any new writers) write new material to take the place of the remakes, even if the album were to have only 8 or 9 songs on it, just to get the new girl's feet wet as a Cheetah Girl, and give the fans a warmup for what is to come in the third movie.

Any way you look at it, I believe that the creativity that Fefe brings, if she accepts (and that's a big if), will certainly keep this group a platinum group, if not drive them toward double-platinum or unexpectedly beyond. She could surely use it, having been dumped by her label, Island Records, before her second album (many times delayed) was to be released.

Of course, if Fefe is the one, the franchise will have to trash the idea of building this group around her in the very same way they built the group around Raven in 2002.

As for Raven, we already know; out of her own mouth she has made it official: She is no longer a Cheetah Girl, period; not even an inactive or movie/soundtrack member. She has turned in her Cheetah spots. I think she's making a big mistake, because those two soundtracks are her only gold albums of her entire 13-year singing career, the first soundtrack of which went double-platinum. Her previous 3 solo albums are all flops, her best being her 3rd, barely halfway toward gold.

Worse yet, having jumped ship from Disney-owned Hollywood to an ever-obscure TMG or Turnip Records, her chances of going gold on her 4th solo attempt, any chance at all, even with producers like Missy Elliott, Timbaland and the Neptunes (all of whom I suspect have been deceived, because I believe they probably thought their work would be on a major label, considering that we didn't find out about the label switch until mid-October), may have gone out the window, if I should be correct that this new record company doesn't have the kind of budget it would need to ship 500,000 copies on day one, if not 500,000 copies overall.

I hope there is absolutely nothing in the original Cheetah Girls contracts they signed in 2002, that says Raven cannot be replaced, even if she quits outright. She said she's too busy for the 3rd movie; therefore, she's done. End of story. Deborah's character, Galleria, need not go down with the girl who played her. Give that character to someone else, someone more willing, and someone who will commit to every appearance or on-stage performance as a member of the real group, because never have I heard of a musical group in existence with a part-time member, which is what Raven basically was.

Angus and Malcolm Young took the chance of not letting AC/DC slip into oblivion in 1980, after Bon Scott's death, and instead hired Brian Johnson to become the new lead singer, with Back In Black selling 20 million. I think Deborah and Disney should do the same, while this group has a good 4 or 5 years of gold- and platinum-selling potential left in them...

...With one exception: The girls need to ditch the voice-over mechanism that got Ashlee Simpson in trouble on Saturday Night Live. They need to sing live, through and through. There has been noise about the trio lip-synching to backing tracks during the tour. Raven always liked to sing live, and demonstrated that, in probably one of her very few (and maybe her very last) appearances with the group, on the stage of ABC's Good Morning America on 23 August. This group should do the same, especially once Raven's replacement has been chosen.

When I saw what those 4 girls did in the first and second films, I believed that they had the potential to pick up where TLC left off; music with a message, and gold and platinum sales without going to the extremes demonstrated by the current crop of gold- and platinum-selling girl groups or even female solo artists. In some aspects, they reminded me of TLC.

But this group has now apparently lost its leading member, and quite likely for good. They must replace Raven with someone who can fill her shoes and perhaps go a step further. I've presented my choice. I would imagine there are others who are as capable, and fit the profile of the lead character for the 3rd movie.

Speaking of which, the fictional movie story is not yet finished. The 2nd movie ended with the fictional group's junior year completed. Now they must have the group graduate from high school, get their biggest break yet, and score a hit record to conclude the saga. They absolutely dare not proceed without its main character (Galleria); and for that, they must find someone to take Raven's place in the real group and as the lead character.

As for the other members, Adrienne and Kiely really should be commended for supporting this group and the franchise that Deborah Gregory created in 1999, even at the great expense of their own group. They could have gone back to the studio as members of 3LW, and tweaked their own album (delayed more than 3 years now) and spent time promoting that album.

They didn't. They agreed to tour as Cheetah Girls, and when the demand increased the number of dates from the original 35 to 80, they agreed to every venue. In pure essence, they saved this group, even as the absence of its leading member, no less, threatened to drag them down.

Unfortunately, the Cheetahs will not be able to save themselves in the studio, from what looks to be a flop on the horizon. They have managed to sell the group on stage, but like their Christmas flop, they will not be able to do the same in the studio or on the record racks. That is where the replacement comes in, to give this group the boost it needs, lest they lose the ability to sell themselves on tour in the future, if they remain a trio.

So, will Raven have any second thoughts, between now and the beginning of production for the 3rd movie, and decide to return, and resurrect her place as the group’s leading member, despite being only a movie/soundtrack member, one who has obviously succeeded in bringing gold and platinum sales to this group? Considering how bluntly her response appeared, to the 9-year-old girl’s question of her participation in Cheetah Girls 3, I wouldn’t bet on it at all.

So, my top choice for her replacement, at this moment (2 November 2006), is Fefe Dobson. Who is yours?

-CookyMonzta

Vincit omnia veritas

• I think we need to stop before we start saying things like that. I have heard from many that Raven will join them for a concert on Dec. 3rd. The link is at TALK: Cheetah Girls 2172.165.165.192 04:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I just saw the Shreveport news article regarding the concert on Dec. 3. Of course they will mention Raven along with the other 3 girls, and that is because she was part of the original group. But do they know that she has never toured with the group? They didn't exactly mention whether she will join them this time. All they say is "The singers include..." We know the singers of the group. If they had said "Scheduled to appear...", or "Scheduled to perform...", I probably would have been more convinced. I want to know whether Raven herself has confirmed whether she will indeed join them or not. -CookyMonzta (9 Nov. 2006)

• Fefe Dobson is too "Rock" to be with the Cheetah Girls. My pick for a replacement would be Jessica Benson from 3LW, Kiely and Adrienne's group.172.144.217.216 03:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Too easy a choice, and I might add, unacceptable.

For one, it was rumored that Jessica would fill in for the television series, and quite probably, assuming a different role; however, I'm not so sure that even this will be the case. Once more, 3LW themselves have been off the radar for 4 years, and regarded as one-album wonders; and even if 2 of the members are part of the Cheetahs, I don't think there will be many that will accept an entire group (that is, all of 3LW) within a group! You might as well call them '3LW featuring Sabrina Bryan', if Disney accepts this scenario; in which case, they'd be finished.

For another, unlike Sabrina's character, Dorinda, Deborah Gregory's standard for the character Galleria was pretty much maintained from book to movie, when they selected Raven to play that role. The character is biracial, but Raven is light-skinned, which is pretty much the case for many who are biracial. Jessica is much darker than either Raven or Fefe, or Kiely, for that matter.

Last, but not least, Jessica just turned 18. All the members of the core group are in their 20s (Kiely turned 20 this summer). If there should be a replacement for the lead role, I would assume that she would have to be no younger than Kiely and no older than Adrienne (23). Remember: This is the lead singer of both the real and fictional group we're dealing with, and the spot we're trying to fill; and if you haven't noticed, Adrienne is the lead singer of 3LW. Without Raven on tour, she has assumed the lead for the Cheetahs. On Cheetah Girls 1 and 2, Raven and Adrienne led on just about every track they recorded, with Raven having nearly a 2-to-1 edge.

Now, as far as Fefe being a rocker is concerned, I fully considered that before I made her my choice. When the Cheetahs went rock-pop-R&B fusion with "Strut" (which is very heavy on guitar), they opened themselves to all sorts of possibilities; the most obvious being a group whose music is just as diverse as its members. The only question that some people may ask, regarding my pick, is this: Can Fefe sing R&B and pop as well? I believe she can (read her Wikipedia bio). Would she want to even give it a try? Although many (including myself) would probably think not, I wouldn't be surprised if she said yes. That remains to be seen, if Disney approaches her. -CookyMonzta (17 Nov.)

• Well, If that's the case, then how about Davida Williams (Claire from Lizzie McGuire and a member of another girl group, TG4). As a matter of fact, she could play Angie, Aqua's twin sister, seeing that they look so much alike. Or Kyla Pratt. Anyways, I dont think Disney is stupid. They are not just gonna have a 3rd Cheetah Girls movie without Raven. They will probably hold out for a while until she decides or bribe her with more money.172.163.126.125 03:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Very good! Interesting alternatives you have. I just missed the closing credits for Dr. Dolittle 3 (I never saw all of 1 and 2), and I wondered who that was who played the character Maya Dolittle, because in that movie, and in one of the photos from Wikipedia, she almost reminds me of Raven. She could easily play Galleria herself, if she can sing. But you're right; I'd wage a bet on the character Angie as well. Same goes for Kyla Pratt.

Both were born in 1986. Either one should fit in nicely with the group, if either of them can sing. Now all that remains is whether Raven will rejoin the group (and I might add, stay with them) or not. Until then, even though she is one of the original members, she must be considered a former member, given her absence from the tour and her current decision not to participate in the 3rd movie. -CookyMonzta (18 Nov.)

• I think what we need to realize is that Raven may never want anything to do with the Cheetah Girls ever again. She did attend the American Music Awards (on 11/21), but she did not attend with her Cheetah Girls and she didn't pose with them on the Red carpet. Instead, she posed just by herself and with her father. And she didn't go on stage with them to present that award either, so that maybe good enough evidence that she has distanced herself from the group once and for all. But she has a couple of good reasons of why not too.

• 1) She did not get along with the other girls when shooting Cheetah Girls 2. She even stated that publically. She says that there were "territorial issues". Lets not forget, before the movie took shooting, the trio (Adrienne, Kiely, and Sabrina) had been touring on there own. Bringing in Raven back into the spotlight front and center probably made them ticked off. If we continue to say why she didn't tour with her "Cheetah sisters", then we must answer this question. Why would she want to tour with girls that kept arguing with her.

2)She wants a career outside of Disney. She knows she cant keep doing kiddie stuff for long. She's already known as "little Olivia from the Cosby show". She doesn't want to be known just for that and "That's So Raven" forever, cause it could hurt her career for the long run and hurt her from getting more mature roles. The other girls are also getting to old but they are riding the money wave because they know the Cheetah girls could be a big brand name. Raven is a bigger name than the other girls and it could reduce her status if she is a lead member of the Cheetah Girls (girl group).

• I do think that she should at least do Cheetah Girls 3 with them but she does have reasonable feelings on why she isn't touring with them. Just like Zac what's his name isn't touring with the rest of the High School Musical crew for they're tour. I do think that the Cheetah Girls 2 could be more of a big success than High School Musical. However, if they do make a Cheetah Girls 3 without Raven, it would just be the 3 of them (Chanel, Aqua, Dorinda) with them writing of Galleria as staying her mother or father or moving away. I dont think Disney would actually replace her with another actress because the Cheetah Girls (girl group) are already big as Adrienne, Kiely, and Sabrina and putting another actress replacing Raven (a brand name) would just complicate things and make things weird. 172.145.49.88 04:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Raven's intent on having nothing to do with the Cheetahs was obvious even before she officially quit. We know she didn't exactly get along with the girls (rumor has it she does get along with Adrienne, but has serious issues with Kiely). And has it occurred to you that maybe she would rather see the trio crash and burn, rather than watch someone take her place in the group and take her place as Galleria in the next movie?

I believe I mentioned something about their ages in the Wikipedia discussion area for 'Cheetah Girls 2'. I also mentioned that they have perhaps another 4 years in them, before they reach a point where they all have to move on.

No doubt, the other 3 are probably in it because the franchise sells and they're making money on the franchise name; not to mention that the likelihood that 3LW's next album could very well flop because the 2 girls of this group have been away from that project for 4 years now, and the fans have moved on since.

Regardless, how well do you really think the touring trio can do on their own? Indeed, last year's Christmas concerts were a success, but the album that came with it was not! It only goes to prove that concert sellouts doth not necessarily a gold album maketh. Just look at the current numbers for Vanessa Anne Hudgens' solo album..

That alone tells me that, had Raven been involved with last year's Christmas album project, it might have sold at least 300,000, maybe 400,000, in its first year, and might have gone gold this year or last year. The trio alone is likely to find out how little their concert sellouts carry over to their studio album in the spring of 2007, even if Raven is featured on one of the tracks (according to the latest information). You do realize that, without Raven, the chances of the third movie going to theaters are slim-to-none, unless they find someone who can sell it as well or even better

I think you missed a key point in what I have posted here: Raven has not had much success, either, as a solo artist. Her last 3 albums were flops, including her last one, This Is My Time, which came the year after the first Cheetah Girls movie, for which the corresponding album went double-platinum. Many people consider her an exceptional group leader, but not a good-enough solo vocalist. Worse yet, with her 4th solo album having been delayed twice, and confusion brewing over the title and the contents, I think she has made things much worse for her solo prospects.

The fact that she has had little success as a solo artist is the reason I believe that, even though she holds sway over the destiny of the group, that sway can be broken and they can replace her with someone else and have almost as much success as they did with Raven, although I think they would still be taking a big chance if they go theatrical. If the group remains a trio, I think they're likely to lose as much as 20% of their Cheetah Girls 2 audience for the 3rd movie, because the leader of this group (fictional and real) is not there. The sales of the studio album in 2007 will give an indication of where they are likely to stand, as far as the 3rd movie is concerned. Already, the song "Route 66" (sung by the trio) is having trouble staying on the Disney chart; in one week (#22 on 11/12) and out the next.

Weird as you may think it will be, I think they are in a position where they must replace Raven. The fictional story started out with a quintet, and they erased the identical twin in the fictional story to create the real group, a quartet (they couldn't find twins who could sing when they were shooting the first movie). I already find it weird that this group, carrying the fictional group's name, is a trio. The vibe I get, from various Web sites, is that, if they write Galleria out of the fictional story for the 3rd movie, thereby keeping the current group (fictional and real) a trio, they're in for a rude awakening. The message I read, over and over again, is almost always the same, in one form or another: No Raven, no Cheetah Girls 3!

Though they are unlikely to accept anyone other than Raven in the 3rd movie, to leave the movie to the trio alone, I believe, is worse, considering how poorly they have done as a trio even on Radio Disney's charts. Consider that every Cheetah song that made that radio station's weekly top 20 included Raven.

Nevertheless, I believe that someone capable of selling the group and the 3rd movie is necessary. That is why I say they should give the role of Galleria to someone else, and let that girl take Raven's place (and apparently Adrienne's, at the present moment) as leader of the real group. Fefe Dobson is my first choice; and admittedly, I'm biased here, because I want someone who can actually play an instrument, and she plays guitar and piano. There are others (including Davida Williams and Kyla Pratt) whose names have been put forward, as potential replacements, or new members if Raven stays.

It would also help if they gave the new quartet (or quintet) some musical material that sounded a lot less like Disney and a lot more like the rest of America, and even the songwriters (whom they should replace as well) could accomplish that with G- or PG-rated material. Could that be one of the reasons Raven quit?

One other thing: Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like they might have had the same argument that their fictional counterparts had in the first movie, from the scene in Jackal Johnson's studio just after they got finished singing "Girl Power"? And just for good measure, I'd bet very good money that, when the trio appeared on stage at the American Music Awards, a lot of eyes turned to Raven, wherever she was sitting (if she was in the audience), with a sharply inquisitive look that seemed to say "Why aren't you up there with them?" -CookyMonzta (25 Nov., 2:03 P.M. E.S.T.)

Slumber Party Girls vs. Cheetah Girls

I read in a Disney vs. Nickelodeon article that Nickelodeon/CBS is using the Slumber Party Girls to compete with the Cheetah Girls to tap into their audience. What do ya'll think. I'll find the source. The Slumber Party Girls are supposedly on CBS' "KOL Secret Slumber Party on CBS".72.94.46.117 20:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I had that same feeling when I first heard about them. This group, if I read correctly, was created by Ron Fair and Stefanie Ridel. For those of you who are old enough to know, Stefanie Ridel and Stacy 'Fergie' Ferguson were members of the trio Wild Orchid (Fergie left in 2001; the group broke up in 2003).

Though they sound convincing, as it stands right now the Slumber Party Girls are not an immediate threat to the Cheetah Girls, nor are they even close. Their album Dance Revolution hit the racks on 24 October, and has yet to hit the Billboard 200. Cheetahs, meanwhile, are once again on a slow prowl toward platinum.

The question is, will Raven be with them for the 3rd campaign? If not, and the SPG put out a second album, they may go for some more serious material on that album, and take it all. Despite lousy sales for SPG's first album, the Cheetahs are quite vulnerable in one spot: They don't have Raven with them.

In 2007 or 2008, we'll know the destinies of both groups (SPG and the Cheetahs), unless the late-1980s freestyle group Pajama Party don't sue the creators of SPG first. That's because once Dance Revolution is completed, the SPG are set to make a television movie of their own! Once more, they are also likely to have a weekly television series, that which was almost the case for the Cheetahs, except Disney canceled production after 4 episodes and never aired those 4!

Despite the slow start (a crawl, I would say, for the album at least), the SPG may give the Cheetahs a lot more than what they bargained for; and if that is the case, Raven's absence is going to hurt a lot more, because the members of the SPG are in their mid-to-late-teens, while the Cheetahs are 20 to 23. Cheetahs had better find a replacement capable of preserving their popularity at present, or they will suffocate under the weight of pillows and pajamas in 2007. -CookyMonzta (25 Nov.)

• Sounds like the Cheetah Girls book "Showdown at the Okie-Dokie" when the Cheetah Girls were going up against the Cash Money Girls. Except now, it's the Slumber Party Girls.72.94.46.100 22:50, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• From the NY TIMES article about the Slumber Party Girls:

"For example, the Cheetah Girls, a Disney brand pop quartet, have already released three hit albums and appear in their own line of Disney Channel movies. "We are fighting for the same audience" said Ms. Carattini. "It's going to be a Britney - Christina thing. You're going to choose one or the other."

WHOA! Fighting words!

Cheetah Girls 2 soundtrack certified Platinum

The link is at Pulse Music Board.com. Go to Music News and go to this week's Billboard/Soundscan section and page 4. It's also at Billboard.com

Cheetahlicious Christmas peaking in Top 50

Album sales update:

The album Cheetahlicious Christmas has been seen in the Hits Daily Double's Top 50. The album may be back in the top 50 so far.172.150.235.228 20:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed Soundtracks from discography

I removed them because, they are not really their albums they are SOUNDTRACKS to moves that they were in. So, I don't think they shold be placed in there.

• I would have left it the way it was, if I were you. I have a different rule when it comes to soundtracks: Majority rules! For any artist who has a majority of the tracks on any soundtrack album, that soundtrack can be completely attributed to that artist alone. Cheetahs had 4 of the 8 tracks on the first soundtrack album, while no one had more than 1; and they had 7 of the 13 tracks on the original release of the second soundtrack album. The only condition I stipulate is that such an artist would have to have at least 1/3 of the tracks on the album. Cheetahs cover that easily on both soundtracks. -CookyMonzta (28 Nov.)

Singles Box

• Can somebody fix that? Some loser messed it all up. Thanks Jtervin 13:00, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Consider it fixed. It's as simple as going back to an earlier version of the page, and borrowing a segment of the code from that page. But then again, it's not that simple, unless you know what part of the code you want to replace (from beginning to end) to edit the corrupted segment of the page.

I had to dump "Together We Can" to restore the page back to its original status. If you can verify if this song reached number 1 on Radio Disney in 2003/04, I think I may be able to slip it back in for you.

You probably know this by now, but Jump In! (8.17 million viewers) just cracked the Cheetah Girls' ratings record (reportedly 8.12 million) for Cheetah Girls 2. I suppose the Cheetahs' record of 7.82 million was readjusted after the acquisition of new data that was not available the week after its first telecast.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/recent_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003534257

In any event, with High School Musical 2 on the horizon, the question now becomes this: Without Raven to spark the ratings for this group, can there even be a Cheetah Girls 3? They'll be lucky to match the ratings of the first movie (6.5 million). If HSM2 grabs 9 million viewers, it will become pretty much a mandate that the Cheetahs get Raven back or find a worthy replacement. If HSM2 grabs more than 10 million, they'd best not even THINK about making the 3rd movie without Raven! Like I said before, even after quitting, she still holds sway over the destiny of this group. --CookyMonzta 06:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• I agree that Raven has had a lot to do with the success of The Cheetah Girls. But, like I said on IMDB...wait a mintue, and I'll just add it here. Jtervin 02:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

CookyMonzta, Here is what I wrote

• Here's what I wrote:

Ok, I see your point too but Sabrina has already confirmed that all three Cheetahs are writing music, while they are on tour...RIGHT NOW. Also, Adrienne has commented that she knows The Cheetah Girls will have to work extermly hard to break their age group, they are working with some mainstream people to make their music on their second album work.

Also, consider that 2006/2007 will really be the first year that The Cheetah Girls are a real live group. They have done plenty-a-menty of soundtracks and their movie's songs but the only real CD that they have ever done, was a Christmas album...with Walt Disney Records! They were not really signed to a real label, in my opinion, they were just doing a special-cheetah christmas kind od thing.

I also get that with Raven, the group looks more sucsessful, but I think that since the girls are really becoming a "group" this year and writing music and working with will.i.am and Timbaland, they can stand their own. I don't think that they need her. Honestly, I think Raven needs them more.

If you compare the sales of Raven's third album and The Cheetah Girls' first, they are only off by a few, with Raven in the lead. I understand that 100,000 is not a few but Raven was also starring on a hit-TV show at the time, and recived some publicity. The Cheetah Girls recived N-O-N-E for their album. (Probably because it was Walt Disney Records and nobody expected anything from them, and did not expect them to form a REAL group.)

I also get the whole Angie thing. I think that would be a wonderful idea. but I'm saying what I've heard is the "cousin" thing or the "only three left" thing. But, I'm not in charge of anything so...it's not like I can help. I also relaize that The Cheetah Girls 3 will be on the small-screen. The Cheetah Girls 2 was supposed to be a theatrical release but it wasn't because Disney felt it would be too hard to release a sequel to theaters, since they didn't release the first one to theaters.

But, you may be glad to know, or not (?), that there are HUGE rumors that The Cheetah Girls will be airing their own series on the CW (But I'm sure Disney will re-air or air it originally...). It is rumored to be the second season of "The Search For The Next". The first season, to start in April (I think lol) will be For The Next Pussycat Doll. The Cheetah Girls are rumored to be taking on the second season for "The Search For The Next Cheetah Girl".

I have no idea if this is true or faulse, but I think it could be a good idea. I think they should release their second album and attempt to hit mainstream as much as possible. I think that they can at least make a dent somewhere on the charts and then The CW could start filming, after taking some time off for Adrienne and Kiely for 3LW and some break time for everyone.

I have no idea if Hollywood Records will let them do this or not but I hope they do because without The CW, I do not see the series ever airing or filming or anything. Disney will NEVER air a reality show so that's hopeless.

Finally, if they do the series, they can find the girl and have her win, well she will work to win lol, and then they could stop again for some 3LW time and break time, (they can't work all the time, and I feel bad for K & A. They're working their butts off to keep both of these groups alive and practically living two lives. :( ) And then they could start recording album number three with the new Cheetah and release that album.

I hope Hollywood Records lets this happen, if it is happening, because this could and WOULD do wonders for The Cheetahs.

But please also note that Sabrina Bryan stated in a interview that she knows nothing of a new cheetah, but she could just be "out of the loop".

• I saw that at IMDB, and I think I left a response to that. Needless to say, the ratings for the 3rd movie (without Raven) will decide whether they need each other, or one side needs the other more. I happen to think it is a bit of both, except that I think they may need Raven a little more, because rarely does a group fare well without its leader, and Raven was the first one chosen (in 2002) specifically to sell this group, the movie and the soundtrack.

• Concert sellouts do not necessarily guarantee high sales. Consider Madonna's wildly popular Confessions Tour. Did it help her to score triple or quadruple-platinum, like she used to? No. Cheetahs (without Raven) will have to depend on the response to whatever their first track is, and if it fails to attract consumers the way the 2 soundtracks did, and the soundtrack to the 3rd movie fails as well, then the assertion that I made when Raven quit (movies, soundtracks, etc.) will be proven correct. The ratings for the third movie will ultimately depend on the viewer response to Raven's absence, whether the group remains a trio or a new 4th girl is brought in, to either take her place as Galleria or play Anginette. Personally, as a trio, I think they'll be hard-pressed to attract 7 million viewers or go platnium for the 3rd soundtrack. Bet the farm on High School Musical 2 to get 9 or 10 million viewers.

• Speaking of which, you or someone else had Raven posted on the page as "only in the movies and on soundtracks." We know she quit the whole deal last October; for which, I think she should be listed as a former member, with the tag, "movies/soundtracks only". You may want to rethink your dates as well, because their first session together (all 4), as we all know, was late in 2002, (October, to be specific), even if they (the trio) never performed live on stage until late-2005.

• I see your point, that depending on the first single and how it turns out, will pretty much make or break the 3rd movie. I will not however, list Raven-Symone as a former member, since in interviews, the group confirmed that Raven was not part of the group. Galleria was, part of the group on screen group of Cheetahs. I honestly think that the fictional group of Cheetahs should have their own page. I mean, really the group was not a real group until the trio recorded "I Won't Say (I'm In Love)". The fictional group sang on the soundtrack, but so did the "group" from the 2002/2003 Josie and The Pussycats movie, but they were not a real group. The group of four Cheetahs is a fictional group, but since there is a real group which includes 3 of the four fictional members, the song is wirtten of as theirs. Jtervin 00:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Your comparison of the Cheetahs of 2002-2003 with the actresses who played Josie and the Pussycats has one major flaw that cannot be explained away: The actresses who played Josie and the Pussycats did not sing a single note of the songs of that soundtrack (Kay Hanley was the singing voice for actress Rachel Leigh Cook); but the actresses (including Raven) who played the Cheetah Girls sang every note themselves on the first 4 tracks of their first soundtrack. That is why I make my assertion that the genesis of this group begins with the first recording they ever did, which was in the fall of 2002. It is certainly not as if the group never existed at the time (2002-2003), even if they themselves were never addressed by the name of the fictional group; which, I must say, they were. Go to any message board from 2003 that still exists on the Web (try Amazon.com), and you will see a plethora of critics addressing them by this group's name. The fictional characters are not the ones having sung songs like "Cinderella" on the first soundtrack, (they don't exist in reality, as you are attempting to justify); the actresses who portrayed those fictional characters sang, and they certainly were not lip-synching. The fact that there was no official name by which the fans could address these 4 singing actresses, led the fans to address them appropriately as the Cheetah Girls. They are not their characters, but there had to be a name for the fans to identify them collectively. That is also why the original 4 actresses (Raven included) are addressed as such today, even though they never had an official contract in 2002-2003. [In simpler language, they are not the fictional group, but the fans called them the Cheetah Girls, anyway, because they had no other name to call them in 2003 and 2004. That was not the case with regard to another real group who portrayed a fictional group. Consider the Barbusters, a fictional group as well, but they had an official name by which the fans could address them: Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, with Michael J. Fox as feature vocalist, if he did sing at all, on the soundtrack for the 1987 movie Light of Day.]

Are you attempting to make the case that the group never existed at all before 2005? That certainly is not the case, otherwise they would have lip-synched while session singers did the work in the background (like John Davis, Brad Howell and Charles Shaw of Milli Vanilli did for Rob and Fab). Fortunately, Disney (or Deborah Gregory herself) insisted on 5 actresses (they got 4) who could actually sing, and once they put them in the studio to record a song, they became a group. That was in 2002. Granted, they were not officially signed (until the trio in 2005), and probably not officially named (the fans did that for them), but a group nonetheless. Once more, a separate Web page for the fictional group is unnecessary, because they already exist on this site and elsewhere, for the characters from Deborah's books, and the fictional synopses of the stories from those books and the 2 movies.

Raven is not a part of the official group now, because her contract is separate from theirs. She is not obligated to perform with them, wherever they go. Of course, she chose not to. [If she had chosen otherwise, would you have considered her a part of the group?] They signed their contract in 2005, making the official group a trio. Unfortunately, the concept of "official" is irrelevant to the fans, because they were all in the studio in 2002 for the first soundtrack, and the fans generally addressed them all as Cheetah Girls, with or without Raven; and unfortunately, so do the soundtracks. [Disney would have fared better to clarify, on the album, who was officially part of the real group, and addressed Raven as a feature vocalist; but they didn't; which again leaves us hanging with this with-or-without-Raven scenario, as soundtrack member but not official member.] They understand that the live group is a trio, and Raven has or wants no part of it. Of course, many still cannot get past the fact that she was hand-picked (the 1st one chosen) at the very beginning, to sell both the real (soundtrack recordings) and fictional (movie) group, and the product; not to mention that she was the lead singer on a majority of the soundtrack songs they recorded, and both soundtracks have sold well over a million, almost certainly on the strength of Raven's leadership.

There is certainly no doubt about one thing we can agree on, regarding Raven's contribution to the group and the franchise: It has ended, as of that interview last October. If she is true to her word, she will have nothing more to do with them (the 3rd movie, the 3rd soundtrack, etc.) from that point on. But there is still the business of what the trio can do without her. Can the trio alone duplicate the success of the soundtracks, which sold almost totally on the strength of Raven's leadership? I'm not so sure they can. Their Christmas album sold another 175,000 copies (now past 300,000) only because Cheetah Girls 2 was still selling. What can this trio do without Raven and without the coattails of the 2nd soundtrack?

Will they continue the success they had when Raven was with them, or will they become like the Supremes after Diana Ross quit? If they struggle to go gold, my case will have been made; and if you have been reading the messages all over the Web, I'm not alone in maintaining my claim that Raven still holds sway over their destiny (consider that "Route 66" is hardly anywhere to be found on the Radio Disney top 30). If they come close to platinum or surpass it, they will have succeeded in breaking the sway that Raven still holds over them, and will have made themselves a group in their own right. But as of now, they have not yet proven that. They are still riding on the strength of what Raven contributed to them!

It almost certainly comes down to this: The fans will come out in droves to support the trio in concert (or is it that they are supporting the franchise, one that included Raven, until 3 months ago?). But will they support them in the record shops? If the answer is no, I'm afraid they will have to consider finding someone to take Raven's place, and sing the parts Raven sang on both soundtracks (as opposed to Adrienne singing almost all of Raven's parts), and either play Galleria or Anginette in the next movie. And if they do (and somehow I have a feeling they will), they must put her on the same contract as the other 3, obligating her to perform with them. Like I said before, I don't think the trio can sell the third movie (or the 4th) the way Raven sold the first 2 and their corresponding soundtracks, and I think it may take another girl with as strong a voice as Raven's to do it. --CookyMonzta 18:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

• I agree that Raven has has a lot to do with the sucess of this group. I really do. But I also think that keeping the girl in Walt Disney Records was a bad choice for a debut album. Walt Disney Records is obviously going to cath much mainstream attention, with the exception of the soundtracks of the CG movies and HSM.

I also think that adding another girl for the movie would be a good idea, but not to the group, unless it invloves a reality show. The show would catch some attention for the girls, even if it failed and could possibly boost them more than they even are.I also think that them opening an official MySpace page did something too. A lot of people access MySpace and they could attract more fans that way.

Also, I have been wondering if you noticed at all the Cheetah Sisters: Barcelona Mix on the Cheetah Girls 2 soundtrack. If you have a chance, listen to that song for me. It does not include Raven. It was re-recorded for this soundtrack. There are also rumors of a Greatest Hits album to be in the works after their Hollywod Records debut is avalible for some time. And since, they re-recorded Cheetah Sisters as an actual group, without Raven, I am asuming that if a Greatest Hits album does eventually come along, it will be full of re-recorded material that does not include Raven. If you also bought the Cheetah Girls Party's Just Begun Tour book, you will see that there is a photospread in there, and one of the pictures originally containted Raven.

Look on the main page for this group and find their picture. That image has been photoshopped. In that version, used to promote the tour and the soundtrack, they made it look as if they were all standing together originally. They weren't. Raven was standing in between of Adrienne and Sabrina. In the book, a picture from that same photoshoot was included and the lyrics to Strut replaced Raven's body.

I think that Hollywood Records is making it very clear that raven has nothing to do with The Cheetah Girls and probably never will again. I can also assume that the girls not want to have anything to do with her...well, they do not want to be tied to her. Raven has said that she is done with Disney after her "Adventures in Babysitting" remake, since she does not want to be tied down to "a kid franchise". I am assume that this upset Disney and now their are rumors of Raven being dropped from Hollywood Records and moved to Arista Records, which would explain the delay in her album release.

All I know is, Raven is not part of The Cheetah Girls. Galleria is. Jtervin 18:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

• Which leads us right back to obvious question we've been debating all along: Who will take Raven's place as Galleria, if they want to keep the character in the fictional story? Of course, if they find a replacement who can sing, she will undoubtedly take over as the new lead singer, if she decides to stay in the group for the long haul, beyond the 3rd or 4th movie.

Disney and the Cheetahs will undoubtedly do a lot more harm than good by re-recording all of the original material from 2002/03 and 2006, in a futile attempt to write Raven completely out of the original history of this group (as I suspect you have been doing as well). No one in their right minds can call such a CD a "Greatest Hits" CD, if none of the original recorded material (recorded with Raven) exists. They will be asking for an outright flop if they do, because anyone who has seen the first 2 films and heard both soundtracks knows that Raven contributed to 11 of the Cheetahs' songs, and many of those 11 made the top 10 and top 20 at Radio Disney, while the trio alone has yet to crack the top 20 themselves once.

Again, if it takes another girl to sell this group even half as well as Raven (and I think it will), I'm absolutely all for it, because I don't think the trio can accomplish that themselves. I will eat my words, of course, if the trio manages to sell a million copies without Raven. --CookyMonzta 19:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

• I am not trying to completly trying to erase the face that Raven was their co-star in the movies. But she was never a meber of the REAL LIVE group. And like I said, the "Greatest Hits" album is just a rumor, as is the reality show. I don't know what will happen but as of right now, I am all for your idea of having Galleria away and bringing Anginette in. I don't know if they should bring her into the real live group though, depening on who they bring in. And as for the rumor of Jessica Benson being cast a Cheetah Girl for the 3rd movie, I DO NOT want that to happen. 3LW is (in my opinon) way to mature for Cheetah fans to hear and having a group within a group is ridiculous. But...3LW's album has been pushed back from 2003 to 2007 already which leads me to the face that 3LW may have to face the music that the may be over and it may be the best thing for Jessica to join the Cheetahs. I mean, really old artists have MySpace pages where they just add their "greatest hits". 3LW is already doing exactly that which leads me to believe that 3LW may be over and Jessica Benson may be joining the Cheetahs.

If 3LW is over than I am all for Jessica joining the Cheetahs as Anginette. But if 3LW remains a group, then I am completly against Jessica joining them. And if 3LW is over and she joins the Cheetahs, this may be the way to get older fans to listen to The Cheetah Girls. I guess some part of the girls fate is on the hand of 3LW. Jtervin 03:03, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

• Again, bad idea for Jessica to join the Cheetahs, whether 3LW is still in business or not. They would become 3LW Redux if they did (I happen to think that is the case right now for the trio). You would have an entire group within a group, with the addition of only one (Sabrina). Raven made the Cheetahs uniquely Cheetah. Without her leading the way (which she did for most of the 11 songs she participated on), someone else must take her place and take the Cheetahs in a direction that would make them uniquely Cheetah and does not have the remaining trio (Sabrina included) resembling a slightly-more-sanitized version of 3LW.

As for Raven, if rumors are true, that she is leaving (or getting the boot from) Hollywood Records, her options with her new record label will be severely limited. As a 18-year acting/14-year singing veteran, she has failed to go gold on 3 labels thus far: MCA (Here's To New Dreams), Mercury (Undeniable) and Disney/Hollywood (This Is My Time), while two of her soon-to-be-former Disney compatriots went double-platinum with relative speed: Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus. Wherever she ends up, I'm almost certain it'll be her very last chance. If Fly Like A Raven fails, her recording career will either be completely over (make no mistake, they will drop her like a hot iron), or she will be relegated to a very obscure independent label, where few will even notice when or if she puts another album on the racks.

As for rumors of her appearance in the movie Sparkle, (considered the forerunner to Dreamgirls, on stage and screen) I have seen the original 1976 version more than once. It is good that she is now losing weight, because I seriously doubt that they will rewrite the script to accommodate her at the weight she was when she did Cheetah Girls 2. They would and will surely replace her in a heartbeat, if she doesn't get down to size to fit the role that Irene Cara (who was 17 at the time) made famous.

And what of the remnants of the Cheetahs' franchise? In 2013, the franchise will celebrate its 15th anniversary since Deborah Gregory started writing this saga, and the 10th anniversary since the quartet of Raven, Adrienne, Sabrina and Kiely hit the recording studio for the first time, and brought 4 of the 5 fictional characters to the television screen. I would wage a bet that Raven will stay away from that celebration (if there is one, which I would probably think not), although she'd be hard-pressed to show up at Disney, anyway, because it'll also be the 10th anniversary of her own show, That's So Raven. And what would they do at this 10th anniversary, if her role of Galleria, by then, was assumed by another singing actress?

You may have a point when you say that Raven may need them even more. It was a big mistake for her to cut herself out of the live act before they signed that part of the contract in 2005 (of course, she does not like to lip-sync). I think it could have helped her own solo career. Having said that, despite having the backing of Disney, I don't think the trio or their producers can take them any farther than they had gone with Raven. Basically, she was the franchise to many. In the end, I think they will need her just as much.

With Raven gone from Disney (depending on whether there was any acrimony involved), she will not be able (or allowed) to make guest appearances on the spinoff show Cory In The House. In my opinion, the future looks quite bumpy for all 4 girls, apart as it seems right now. --CookyMonzta 18:12, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

• I still believe that Raven's fate is resting on Disney. Disney made her a star again adn now she is leaving them, which makes me think that after That's So Raven has aired the finale and died down a little, Raven won't get any work again. She'll be right where she started before she won the lead on TSR.

Also, so you also believe that 3LW is coming to an end? Because I personally do. And I think that you implied that.

Finally, I think that the group did all depend on each other but personally I am hoping that Hollywood Records will let the Cheetahs become mainstream and not keep them in Disney forever like Raven. I also think that the group can be mainstream successful without Raven, but they will have to work hard to do that. Hopefully their new single will do good and sell albums for the girls. Jtervin 21:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

• Yes! I do believe that 3LW is pretty much dead and buried. Consider this: In 2003 and 2004, the Cheetahs were not a live group (they were confined to the recording studio, and they only did 4 songs up to that point, all for the first soundtrack); and even if they were, I have a feeling that, even back then, Raven would have stayed out of the live group and still left it a trio, because she was obviously too busy with That's So Raven and Princess Diaries 2.

With absolutely no live Cheetah performances in 2003 and 2004 (unless I missed something), Adrienne, Kiely and their 3LW producers had all the time in the world to make a 3rd album, make changes if necessary, promote the album, perform live as 3LW, and repair the damage that either they wrought upon themselves or was wrought upon them by the fans, following the acrimony that forced Naturi Naughton out of the group, to be replaced by Jessica Benson. They failed to take advantage of that time, especially after the embarrassment of recording a Christmas album late in 2002, with no third member, yet keeping the name "3LW." Adrienne and Kiely let that "2LW" situation fester for years between the completion of the first Cheetah Girls movie (late-2002) and their Cheetah-licious Christmas project (late-2005), and during that time (3 years) the fans have moved on, many of whom are in their mid-20s, unlikely to embrace them as much as they did in 2000 and 2001, and surely unlikely to embrace the current state of the Cheetah Girls, which is still marketed to a 7-to-14 audience.

That is to say that, not all of their current or former 3LW fans are Cheetah Girls fans. It is possible for Disney to market the Cheetahs to a 15-to-24 (or even 15-to-29) audience, and still keep it clean; unfortunately, I don't think they will. If you followed my comments all over the Web, my opinion has always been this: With Raven at the lead, a serious songwriter, and a song that doesn't sound anything at all like it came from Disney, they might have had a chance of doing something that one group, derived originally from a fictional script, did at least twice; and that is, put hits in the top 10 on the Billboard Hot 100. That group was the Monkees. They hit the top 10 six times, and as far as I know, were also the number 1 pop artists of 1967. I think the chance the Cheetahs had, even for one top-10 hit, is now lost; which is to say I don't think the remaining 3 can accomplish this, unless a songwriter comes up with something quite extraordinary, enough to keep the single in the top 10 for at least 2 weeks (to make it legit).

Depending on what the trio's opening cut is, the album they make could debut in the top 10 (like the 2 soundtracks), if the popularity of the Cheetahs (the franchise, that is) hasn't worn off significantly by then. But to some, with what remains of the Cheetahs, there is hardly a difference between them and 3LW, given that 2 of the 3 members belong to both groups, leaving the simple act of switching one member (Sabrina) with another (Jessica). Again, we have 3LW Redux.

With 3LW virtually dead and Raven out of the picture completely, along with her fans who are not Cheetah fans, how many of the Cheetah fans and former 3LW fans (especially from those packed arenas) can Adrienne and Kiely count on to support the Cheetah Girls? I'm not even sure if Disney will throw even half as much weight, behind their upcoming album, as they did for the second movie soundtrack. And if too many of the tracks keep them trapped in kid-pop, and the album falls rapidly because of it, they most certainly won't get another chance.

Adrienne may be their best singer, even considered by some to have been the best singer even with Raven in the mix; but none of the 3 are even close to being the power vocalist that Raven was. If their lack of power hinders their success as a stand-alone group, among all the other things I've explained here, then it may be the case that, unless Adrienne quits (they all could have quit, at one point or another, but didn't; which may demonstrate that maybe they need this even more) she may have to get used to playing second-fiddle once again, to someone new.

Clearly, Cheetahs really have their work cut out for them. And I might add, so does Raven, who upon her departure from Disney will once again be on her own. --CookyMonzta 04:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion on the merger of The Cheetah Girls (TV series)

I though the concensus of the AFD was to merge the information. Now it appears that Jtervin has removed the newly merged information. This information had possibility for expansion. (ie.:IMDB is one of the first sources). Having an article talk about many aspects of a suject creates a interesting article. Please explain your edits. Thank you. --CyclePat 04:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Please use http://www.easybib.com if you plan on using these references, which support the merger I did.

Further reading:

• http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/cheetah-girls/282583
• http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/C/Cheetah_Girls/ConcertReviews/2006/12/15/2805691.html

But then again, the information is kind of still in the article. Anyway, I'dd try and add this information. --CyclePat 04:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC) p.s.: Don't forget to talk about the book and the gameboy game

• Not much to merge, really, the TV series never happened. Guy (Help!) 12:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay! Thank you Guy. You know how dramatically excited I can get sometimes. Here are some more sources, but alas, it mostly talks about the music group, the 2 movies and doesn't really talk about the TV series. After a good sleep, I think I did okay. Thank you again.:

• http://www.mtv.com/search/?searchterm=CHEETAH+GIRLS&searchtype=all#/movies/movie/242443/moviemain.jhtml

Yours trully, --CyclePat 13:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The TV series did happen, but was never aired. I also want to point out that if you look in the Merchandise section, that information about the books, the clothes, the games, and the TV series and more are already added into that section. The way you edited the page made it look messy and unprofessinal. Jtervin 20:35, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay! B.t.w.: It's funny, because the TV guide says it was premiered August 15, 2003 except the TV guide says there where no episodes. Unlike other TV series, for example Smallville which premiered September 21, 2006 on CW (even though it had some episodes that date back to 2001, and American Idol which premiered on Fox January 19, 2002 and specify which station it premiered. However, Ugly Betty premiered September 28 2006 and doesn't indicate the name of the channel on which it was premiered and that television series did have episodes like unlike The Cheetah Girl. So what I am getting to... is airing on the side of caution to avoid WP:OR. Do we have a specific quote from someone that says "it never aired!" (which in my mind, even though it is possible it was premiered in a theatre), seems to contradict the idea that it was premiered. (Maybe someone can explain to me the likelihood of a TV series that had no episodes being premiered even though it never aired?) --CyclePat 17:40, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh, Pat, the TV Guide thing is for the TV MOVIE. Not the series. Sometimes movies accidently get mistaken for series by places like that, before it becomes huge like now. That's all. Jtervin 03:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The Cheetah Girls 3

• "The Cheetah Girls 3 is the third installment of the series, first mentioned in Disney Insider magazine. The movie was again mentioned in an artist biography for the Cheetah Girls saying the movie was under script development and is a rumored theatrical release." [1]

• Future projects for The Cheetah Girls are part 3 of the movie series (in 2008)as well as their new album in 2007."[2]

According to a recent interview with girls, their will be a third movie. I just hope their will be page for the movie here on Wikipedia.LAUGH90 21:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Raven's weight

About Raven's weight, I cant believe people actually think she looked fat in the Cheetah Girls 2. She didnt look that big to me. I thought she looked fine. The only reason she may have looked bigger is probably because of the unflattering clothes she was dressed in, along with how top heavy she is. I just want to get people's opinion on this, but please don't turn this into a bashing website. i just don't think she is that overweight, and if you saw her during the Train Station scene, you know what i'm talking about. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LAUGH90 (talk • contribs) 21:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

• I agree with you. She has gained weight in the past couple of years, but she's not fat. I met her last April in Barcelona, Spain while she was filming the movie and she did not look fat AT ALL, but her breasts are REALLY big. I saw the movie and she looked the same (definately thinner than when she was on "Punk'd"). She looked just fine in The Cheetah Girls 2. My friends havent met her but they agree with me. Some other people I know think she isnt fat but that she should still lose a few pounds.72.94.46.100 03:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

3!!???

O my gosh!!! I am still behind on Cheetah Girls 2!!!!! Do u know how many movies they are doing???!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.89.28.170 (talk) 01:41, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

TV Redirect

I was redirected here from The Cheetah Girls (TV series), and I can find no information on said subject. If a redirect is made to an article, it needs to be addressed. (even if it turns out Disney never attempted a TV series that got canceled)

Also, if there was no TV series, you also need to remove the entry at List of television series cancelled before airing an episode.

-- trlkly 02:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Bubblegum pop revival

Do The Cheetah Girls are considered bubblegum pop? Because they sound like a late 90's pop group and that's fantastic. Hope that there will be a new wave in bubblegum pop music, because R&B started sucking in my opinion. 213.240.234.212 13:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Expansion request

I appreciate the work that's been done here in compiling a list of Cheetah Girls works and announcing upcoming projects, but right now this article is a bit crufty, in that it seems to be targeted towards people who already know about the Group. Can someone who is familiar with the topic, please add a bit more encyclopedic info in the article that's targeted to non-fans? For example: Who are the Cheetah Girls, why are they famous, who is their target audience, how did the group form, what kind of cultural impact have they had, etc. Thanks, Elonka 06:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I added a formation section. I tried not to go into too many details about the movies and such, becuse there are already articles about them. But I did try to include the reason for Raven-Symone not being in the group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.71.30 (talk) 20:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Raven

Ok...i'm just adding a whole new section, because what's been written on this topic is so absurd and over-reaching. Raven was an actress in the movies. The movie was popular and spawned a popular soundtrack. The girls capitalized on the success of the soundtrack and were given other projects to work on, such as the DisneyMania series and various other soundtracks. Raven was busy with other priorities such as her show at the time and did not go along with the other three girls. She was simply for movie purposes only!! She was NEVER contracted to Hollywood Records WITH the other three girls (she is a solo artist on that record label). She was NEVER signed with Walt Disney Records as the girls were when they released "Cheetah-licious Christmas". Raven-Symone, IS NOT and WILL NEVER BE a "former member" of the Cheetah Girls. It's so lame that this keeps coming up when it is CLEARLY obvious that she isn't included in the actual group. Despite the fact that she has ONLY appeared in the movies and on the soundtracks, you still believe she deserves to be called a former member of the group. The group consists of ADRIENNE, KIELY, AND SABRINA....not "Channel, Aqua, and Dorinda". The Cheetah Girls from the movies ARE NOT equivalent to the Cheetah Girls that Hollywood Records have introduced. Raven SHOULD NOT be included as a former member. If you're going to write that, then you might as well write "Galleria" because that's the name of the character she played!! I'm deleting her name off of here, because it's not appropriate that she be listed! I hope someone understands this ONCE AND FOR ALL!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.71.30 (talk) 17:59, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

One does not necessarily need to be signed to a record label to be a part of a band. Please provide sources for your allegations. Save-Me-Oprah^(talk) 05:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Walt Disney Records

It previously said that the girls were with Walt Disney Records from 2003-2008 (I'm assuming that's because of the third movie's soundtrack being released next year). However, considering the girls were not considered an actual group at the time of the first film, I do not think that it's appropriate to include the years Disney released their soundtracks. We don't even list their soundtracks from the first and second films on their page (which is a good thing). Plus, it even says that they've been active from 2005-present. So I changed their Walt Disney Records dates from 2005-2007, from the release of "Cheetah-licious Christmas" until they were off that label. They are not the same Cheetah Girls when they are in the movie, hence the reason they have stage names. They're playing characters, not themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.66.36 (talk) 14:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

...But their characters didn't go into the studio to record and sing those songs, though; they did! The characters don't exist in reality. I've been off this board for nearly a full year, and still there are some people (including the ones who maintain the article) who continue to confuse reality with fantasy.

Need an example? Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi portrayed a fictional duo called the Blues Brothers for 6 years (before John died); yet, they sang the songs themselves. When I listen to their recordings, I recognize the voices as those of Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi, because in real life Jake and Elwood Blues don't exist. Their characters are confined to the stage and the movie screen. The same applies to the Cheetah Girls (before and after they became "official"), as it once applied to the Monkees, because they alone did all the singing.

So long as the keepers of this article continue to confuse reality with fantasy (which is representative of their opinion and/or version of the chronology of this group; and typical of some articles found in Wikipedia), whatever arguments had been brought up about the accurate chronology of this group (which, as far as I'm concerned, began with the auditions in late-2002 for the first film and corresponding soundtrack), or Raven's official or unofficial involvement or lack thereof, will never end. Personally, I'm beyond this.

That having been said, Raven's absence from the 3rd televised film (and corresponding soundtrack) will most likely be gravely reflected in the ratings and album sales. 8.1 million viewers, I think, is out of the question. They'll be lucky to draw 7 million. She was without a doubt the leader of the franchise. Without the one who sold soundtracks by the hundreds of thousands, and the one who played the lead character twice, the girls have their work cut out for them. I'll be surprised if the 3rd soundtrack goes gold; but judging by how they did with their first non-soundtrack, non-Christmas album, I seriously doubt it, because Cheetahs and Bollywood don't exactly mix. This film may very well be their last.

Somehow, I don't blame Raven for bailing out completely. There was a point where they might have had a chance of going full-tilt mainstream a lot sooner (which would have prompted Raven to join them as an official member). Unfortunately, that didn't happen. On top of that, one of the executive producers of the Cheetahs' TCG is Tse Williams, who happens to be Kiely's aunt (or cousin, or whatever). Many people blame her for Naturi Naughton's exit from 3LW, after which they flopped big-time. You can imagine that Raven wants no part of that drama.

The same could be said for Hannah Montana though. Is the person singing Miley or Hannah? Sure; it's actually Miley but the songs are credited as by Hannah. Are the people on the soundtrack credited as their names in the movie, or their real life names? Save-Me-Oprah^(talk) 05:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)