Talk:The Dagda

Óengus and Brug na Bóinne

In the version I read, Óengus tricked Elcmar out of Brug na Bóinne (with the Daghda's active connivance!). The story is the "Wooing of Étáin": vide hic. Will adjust text accordingly. QuartierLatin1968 El bien mas preciado es la libertad

Accuracy

I think that because of the fact that Celtic mythology is so inconsistent, it should be addressed here. Does anyone disagree? The wife of The Dagda, for example, is not always said to be Breg. In fact, the article suggests that he took the Mórrígan as a lover, but most say the Mórrígan was his wife. A good example can be found at Encyclopedia Mythica. I am by no means a myth expert and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tackle the article, but I'd like to see it built onto properly if there are any takers. I can work on the grammar if anyone would be willing to take the notes. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 17:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The timing suggested in the article makes no sense. It says that the Dagda ruled Ireland before dying at the Brú na Bóinne, finally succumbing to a wound inflicted by Cethlenn during the first battle of Magh Tuiredh. This seems to imply that he died before the second battle of Magh Tuiredh, but that isn't possible because, as this article also says, Prior to the battle with the Fomorians (Which is the second battle of Magh Tuiredh), he coupled with the goddess of war, the Morrigan, on Samhain in exchange for a plan of battle. And if he was king of Ireland before the second battle of Magh Tuiredh, there is no way he could have been king after Lugh, because Lugh became king after Nuadha was killed by Balor during the second battle of Magh Tuiredh. Lugh wasn't even born until after the first battle of Magh Tuiredh. The suggestion that the Dagda was the son of Elatha or of Eithlinn also seems suspicious. Elatha is traditionally the father of Bres, and Eithlinn is the mother of Lugh. My source for this information is Over Nine Waves by Mary Heaney. Celsiana 19:52, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately for encyclopedia editors, Irish mythology is inconsistent and sometimes contradictory, and a coherent "timeline" is impossible to construct. You can't expect to get a full picture of the subject from a single secondary source. I haven't read Over Nine Waves, but Heaney, like most modern writers, has probably simplified a bit. But why couldn't Elatha or Ethlinn not have had several children? At some point I'll try and track down the texts the various elements of the Dagda's "biography" come from (most of the Irish myth entries are a bit lacking in this respect). --Nicknack009 12:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree on the 'inconsistent' part. I just added a bit to the page about how the Dagda is sometimes said to be the father of Danu, and not the son. It comes from Rolleston's Celtic Myths and Legends, where he says, "Dana also sometimes bears another name, that of Brigit..." and "She was the daughter of...the god Dagda, 'The Good.'" I've also seen is as having Dagda be the son of Danu, though...so...yeah. If anyone feels this information is particularly wrong, go ahead and delete the change I made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.73.180 (talk) 01:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

An expert of my (past) acquaintance informed me that the Dagda's name would be properly pronounced something like "Dah-yuh," but I'm wondering how one would pronounce "Eochaid Ollathair." Something like "yo-hay all-a-heer?"
*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 14:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe The Dagda's name is pronounced "DAW-dYAW", with second D being softened and said with the tongue against teeth. As for Eochaid Ollathair, I believe that's correct, but I can't be sure.

-SeanAisteach 10:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The phonetics would be /daɣða/ the g is lenited and the second d is lenited. So kinda like Dagh (soft gh) and thuh (with a voiced "th" like in the) so, Daghtha, although it is possible the second d isn't lenited so, /daɣda/ is also possible. This would be in Old Irish, I'm not sure the modern Irish pronunciation.TheBookishOne

(talk) 00:31, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

The?

Is "the" the English article? Is there a point of having "the" in the title, instead of just "Dagda"? It looks like it's part of the Celtic name? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 14:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is the English article. I'm not sure why it's used (although I suspect one of our our experts on the subject will be stopping by to explain it), but I do know that in every case where I've seen His name written or heard it spoken, the article "the" precedes it.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 15:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, it just seems confusing to me. Btw, I thought capital He only was used for the Abrahamic God? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 17:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand your confusion.

I capitalize the article when referring to any deity, out of respect. I see no reason to restrict that respect to the Abrahamic deity.

It's not the convention in Wikipedia, so I resist the temptation to do it in main article spaces.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 19:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The Dagda, like the Morrígan, always has a definite article in Irish. --Nicknack009 19:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hellboy comics

The Dagda is a pretty prominent figure in the mythos of hellboy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.96.53.7 (talk) 17:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, I hate it when people do that. If they used Allah in the same way, they'd be deluged with lawsuits, fatwas, and nasty letters to the editor. If they used Jesus the same way, Pat Robertson would blow a gasket (hmmm...): I almost blew one myself when I saw an ad for "Chivas de Danu."

Just had to get that off my chest.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 21:11, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

The Green Man

The inconsistancies of Celtic mythology are so many that one should always be careful, so not even MORE confusion is created. The claim in this article that the Cerne Abbas giant is The Daghda, is so speculative that I personally think it has no place in the article. I thought that the most prevailing theory on the giant is that he is The Green Man, whom the Romans called Cernunnos, whom again is more or less the same god as the Romans' Saturn and the Greeks' Pan? Personally I hate the term "associated with", it is often a lame excuse for sourceless, unscientific claims that circulate on the Net. Personally I - as a Scandinavian - associate The Daghda with the Scandinavian word DAG (Nor/Dan/Swe), which means DAY, so what? Dandru13 (talk) 12:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The statement that the Cerne Abbas Giant is a depiction of the Dagda was unsourced and specious, so I removed it. You can read the article on the giant for some (sourced) assessments of its origins, which appear to be relatively recent and not connected to ancient deities like Cernunnos or medieval figures like the Green Man.--Cúchullain ^t/c 02:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree the Cerne Abbas Giant is not the Dagda, but there's no reason to connect him to the Green Man, or Cernunnos, or Saturn, or Pan. Saturn and Pan are unconnected anyway - the Greek equivalent of Saturn was Cronus. And the Romans didn't call anybody Cernunnos - that name comes from a pre-Roman inscription. There's a tendency among those not well-read on languages to assume that any words that take a "stem + inflected ending" form must be Latin (or Greek), when in fact this form is common in ancient Indo-European languages, including Gaulish, Brythonic and Primitive Irish. --Nicknack009 (talk) 03:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I've also removed the image from the Gundestrup Cauldron. The caption describes a figure with a club, but there's no club in the image, and without the club there's no reason to connect the figure to the Dagda. Dandru13, I think you're confusing two different meanings of the word "associate". If a character is regularly associated with certain things in the texts in which that character appears, then that association is valid. Using it in the sense of "whatever comes to mind when I think of this character" is not. --Nicknack009 (talk) 03:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

It's correct that the Cerne Abbas Giant is not the Dagda: the Giant actually has a name, according to the sign below it. Saw that in England on my honeymoon, but don't remember it {facepalm}.

I would not say there's no reason to connect the figure to Him, since He is well-known to possess a magickal cauldron, from which no company goes away unsatisfied. Not saying that it is He on the Gundestrup Cauldron, just pointing out that it's possible and reasonable.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 20:54, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Crom? No.

I don't have a copy at hand to check, but I am told that the citation of Maire McNeill that is used to support the association of the Dagda with Crom Cruach/Dubh does not actually support that. Could someone check and adjust that assertion as needed? Whateley23 (talk) 11:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

• I've been shown the quote. It absolutely does not say that the Dagda even might be Crom, it says that Balor might be Crom. Removing the reference. Whateley23 (talk) 11:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

• Here's the quote in question: "Crom Dubh has been preserved in manuscripts...and this little anecdote is his story in a nut-shell, and it makes credible the thesis that he is akin to, or identical with, Cormac, the Dagda, Elcmar, Midir, and Tom the Cornish giant, and that Balor, if he also is a figure of Crom Dubh, was not originally entirely antipathetic." Whateley23 (talk) 11:21, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Article Needs Revision

This article is a mess. There are tons of unsupported statements that come out of pop culture rather than the source material. It's going to need some massive revision to be useful. Whateley23 (talk) 11:32, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

His Harp

The article says his harp is Uaithne, but the link to which is connects says Uaithne is His harper, not the harp, and names the harp as Daur da Bláo (which I have seen elsewhere). I'm honestly not as well-versed in His lore as I should be, so I'm not sure which to correct, but clearly some kind of clarification is in order.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 04:45, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

@Septegram: Yes, Uaithne is the "harper" in Stokes tr. of CMT (1891) which was the source already cited, as you say.

I tweaked the The Dagda article somewhat in accordance.

(I had revised the Uaithne article beforehand as well)--Kiyoweap (talk) 02:04, 25 June 2024 (UTC)