Talk:The Devil's Advocate (West novel)

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page in this case; suggest revisiting WP:NCB in order to gauge the consensus supporting removing first names in the case of less well-known authors, and then revisiting this request as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 03:20, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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The Devil's Advocate (Morris West novel) → The Devil's Advocate (West novel) – Shall "Morris" be dropped? WP:NCB doesn't mention much about adding a first name in the title. Someone said "(West novel)" looks too ambiguous; I wonder if the current title is too precise. George Ho (talk) 22:24, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

"The Devil's Advocate (disambiguation)" page already lists it as "The Devil's Advocate (West novel)", and I wouldn't have any problem with this page's title being changed to reflect that. Perry Middlemiss (talk) 23:56, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - Morris West is not Dickens or Tolstoy, so (West novel) in itself is ambiguous and a strike out (Morris West novel) doesn't benefit anyone. I think very few post WWI and even fewer post WWII authors are known by surnames only, just as we don't entitle music (Lennon song) (McCartney album), given that WP:PRECISE doesn't mean WP:CRYPTIC there's no advantage to readers in the first name removal which has been favoured at WP:NCB, and which, at first sight at least, at WP:NCB seems to have been promoted by only 2 or 3 editors, unless there's an RFC somewhere. Otherwise there's no "consensus" when so few are involved. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose the NCB guideline is contrary to general Wikipedia practice of using the full name of the creator as the disambiguator, so seemingly a LOCALCONCENSUS. Further, many authors share the same surname, just walk into any bookstore or library, so "surname only" is fairly confusing. It is also contrary to matching disambiguators to the parent articles, which if the author has an article would not appear as just a surname. All books should be moved to full author names (or whatever their author Wikipedia article calls itself) -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 11:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 31 January 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 13:10, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

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The Devil's Advocate (Morris West novel) → The Devil's Advocate (novel) – There's only one novel article in Wikipedia for this title, and if and when the others get a separate article West's would be the primary topic. Francis Schonken (talk) 07:38, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Week Oppose... could be confused with the Andrew Neiderman novel of the same name (which was later turned into the 1997 film of the same name). Blueboar (talk) 17:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - we disambiguate modern artists who are not known as monomyms by the full article name High Times (Dottie West album) VH1 Storytellers (Kanye West album) Like a Fool (Dottie West song) Good Life (Kanye West song), and there are multiple authors surnamed "West" Colin West (author) Jacqueline West (author) Charles West (author) Anthony West (author) Jerry West (author) so (West novel) is about as useful as (West song) or (West album). We also don't have WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for disambiguated terms, so citing WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is nom is incorrect - it is like saying Live in Japan (George Harrison album) should be moved to Live in Japan (Harrison album) because George is the "primary topic" for Live in Japan (Harrison album), but we don't do dabs this way, once a dab is there it needs to be complete unambiguous recognizable and ideally consistent with artist article. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: As is clear from WP:DAB, disambiguation is not just a matter of whether a topic has a separate article or not, but whether the topic is discussed on Wikipedia or not (either as the main topic of an article or a subtopic within the article), and this title appears potentially ambiguous with several topics listed at Devil's advocate (disambiguation), and partial parenthetical disambiguation is generally a bad idea. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:02, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Notability?

Before we get into a discussion about the title (see RM proposal above)... does this book pass our WP:Notability (books) criteria?
If so, then we need to establish why it is notable, and cite sources to support that fact. If not, then the RM is a pointless debate (because we shouldn't have an article on the book in the first place). Blueboar (talk) 12:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Clearly notable as winner of James Tait Black award. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:19, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah... my bad... I missed that little fact (thanks for pointing it out)... so it is notable (we should probably beef up that section a bit... perhaps with a sentence or two explaining why it won the award... or something like that)... And with that interruption, we now return you to our regularly scheduled debate over disambiguation. Blueboar (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)