Talk:The Downs Malvern

Auster and others

Andrew Auster seems to be missing from the list of Headmasters? Signposts for Villa Park and red phone boxes etc. Also, Herefordshire? Have the boundaries moved? The postcode in the school's address was always WR13 6EY!80.1.72.245 21:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)BP

Worcs is fixed. Could you possibly add Auster in the right place? And also Villa Park etc? Any other suitable edits would be very welcome indeed. Macspaunday 23:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Orlando Bloom a former pupil? It's not in his IMDb bio, is this a Wikipedia wind-up? http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089217/bio 80.1.72.245 03:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)BP

Hmm...it says somewhere that he was there briefly. Have modified to match. Macspaunday 05:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

alumni and auden. more pics Victuallers 09:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Geographically the school and its host village Colwall used to be in Herefordshire. But the postcode has always been based on the nearest town, which is Great Malvern in Worcestershire. The county boundary got changed a while ago, when the two counties briefly merged and separated again. I can't remember exactly where it is now, but the postcode remains a Worcestershire one. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:37, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Which Richard Mason?

There are 2 British novelists listed in Wikipedia called Richard Mason - which one attended the school? The current link is to the disambiguation page. Rodparkes 01:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Macspaunday 20:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Herbert and Ethel Jones

The Jones were Friends (Quakers). They moved in 1920 from their job in the Downs School to Geneva, Switzerland, with the objective to create a Quaker Embassy and stayed until 1923. See J. Ormerod Greenwood Quaker encounters (Vol.3 p.247) and History and Biography Project : “Let Their Lives Speak” : A Resource Book (Switzerland Yearly Meeting, 2005) [1].
What source is telling that H. Jones died in 1920?
I suggest some changes be made with those informations.
MHM-en 11:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Changes have been made to incorporate those informations--MHM (talk) 13:16, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Ian Murphy

For the benefit of anyone else who was puzzled, as I was, by the inclusion of someone in the list of headmasters who doesn't appear in the list at [2], here is a paragraph from the Old Downians Society newsletter of January 1989: "On August 24th, the Board of Governors made it known that Mr. Ian Murphy, the Headmaster since January, had tendered his resignation as from the end of that month. This had occurred, it was said, because there had been irreconcilable differences of opinion about the way in which the School should be run. It in no way reflected upon the professional integrity or competence of Mr. Murphy." (He was listed in our article as "L. I. Murphy"; I've changed that to "Ian Murphy" to match what seems to be actual usage.) Gareth McCaughan (talk) 02:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

School name

The school name has changed to The Downs , Malvern College Preparatory School. The history should now include that of Malvern College Preparatory School, previously known as Hillstone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.180.136 (talk) 05:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Previous to this, it was officially referred to as The Downs School (Colwall). The Herefordshire bit is a misnomer and as well as the move to the current name, the original name needs creating as a redirect. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:24, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

On its website it calls itself The Downs Malvern. I'll move it there. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:41, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Done. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:49, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Aedificandum est

The school's motto is currently glossed in the infobox as meaning "it is being built". This is certainly wrong. The meaning is something more like "it must be built" or "it was fitting that it should be built", referring presumably to the school itself. My Latin is not good enough to know whether it can also bear the meaning "one ought to build" without any particular object of building in view; my guess is that it can, but such usages seem uncommon. I think I hazily recall that when I was at the school myself, many years ago, I asked my Latin teacher what it meant and he said "it had to be built". There is at least one page on the web that quotes a headmaster of the school translating it as "it must be built". I am about to change it to "it must be built", though I am not altogether satisfied with that translation. Gareth McCaughan (talk) 23:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Grammatically this is a gerund or gerundive (it was a long time ago that "Chope" taught me the difference). The process of building is key. I believe it translates as either "It is the building" or "It is to be built". — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Most literally, as a gerund it translates as, "It is the (process of) building", while as a gerundive it becomes, "It is to be built". One must assume that Herbert Jones, who came up with it, was aware of this ambiguity and was happy with it. I do not see any imperative to warrant translation as "must", as that would involve an imperative along the lines of "aedificare" or whatever. Jones' message was essentially one of constant change and betterment, of the school as well as of each and every pupil. I would suggest that, "It is in the building", is probably the closest that modern English can get. It retains a more or less equivalent ambiguity quite nicely too. I shall edit it accordingly. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:56, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Steelpillow, whether it's a gerund or a gerundive it don't see that "It is the building" translates it, that sounds like someone pointing out a physical structure, and in "It is in the building" the meaning of "It" is obscure, and the building activity seems to be highlighted. The plain and natural meaning is "It is to be built". I think it appears somewhere in a play by Terence or Plautus, "aedificandum est aedes", a hall is to be built. Someone once made a joke of it, announcing in the Prison Service "Borstalium quartum aedificandum est." Moonraker (talk) 22:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

You are saying in effect that it is "plainly and naturally" a gerundive. Unsurprisingly, examples of that exist. However if things really were that simple then the traditional difficulty over its translation would never have arisen, a difficulty which Bill Berkeley took his usual gloomy delight in expounding to us one evening. No doubt examples also exist of its occurrence as a gerund. It has a subtle double meaning that is well nigh untranslatable. Jones left no clue as to his intentions in that direction, and therein lies the rub. What we really need is a discussion of its translation in a reliable source. Do you have Brown's book to hand? If not, I'll try and dig my copy out. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 00:59, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Overtreatment of Auden

This article is about a school. Suggest adding a section 'main' hatnote and moving much of the bio info about Auden to his main page. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:14, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

I would disagree. The material is all about the relationship between Auden and the Downs, it is equally relevant to both. A modest amount of duplication across the two articles is an accepted way of dealing with this. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:17, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

'Since 2008 the Downs has been the preparatory school for Malvern College.'

Just in case some American or other AE speakers happen to read this article, to avoid confusion there should be a clear distinction of the differences in language. Mainly because 'college' could be interpreted as 'university' and Malvern College is not an establishment of tertiary education, while 'preparatory school' has totally different meanings in AE and BE. The link alone is not enough and readers should not be forced to leave the page to find out. See Article advice, para 6: 'Avoid ambiguity'. The Downs is a primary/elementary school and is not necessarily exclusive for future pupils of Malvern College even if the college possibly owns it since 2008. Officially, Malvern College is an 'associated' school. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:42, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

I can see your point - up to a point. The essay you link to (not policy, nor even a guideline) states that "local terminology must be explained or wiki-linked"; you regard the existing wiki link as unsatisfactory, I see it as complying with the stated condition. Certainly, we should not remove the British-English common description of a British institution. Your way would require something wordy, such as "the preparatory school for Malvern College public school (i.e. the primary/elementary school for a private secondary/high school). I'd suggest that simply adding "public school" after Malvern College would adequately meet the condition. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 15:13, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

11th Duke of Richmond

This gentleman has a remarkable collection of titles and has recently been added to the list of former Downians under more than one of them. I have deleted all of these multiple entries, as they are uncited and there is no mention in his biography at Charles Gordon-Lennox, 11th Duke of Richmond (though I seem to recall one of those titles being used for a fellow pupil of his age back in the day, my fading grey cells are not a reliable source). — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:22, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

W H Auden re John Bowes

John Bowes was second master at Cheltenham College. He had been a pupil at Bryanston but never taught there. 2A00:23C4:351F:D301:A522:1F3F:162E:5211 (talk) 12:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Richard Mason

Should Richard Mason (novelist, born 1919) be included in the list of Old Downinans? His bio states that he was taught there by W. H. Auden and went on to Bryanston School. Here is an intriguing source. It notes him as a pupil of Auden, but no at which school. Auden also taught at one in Scotland, however that had few if any links with Bry, whereas many of us have made the move from The Downs (me included). So it is pretty certain that his bio has it right, but not explicitly so. I'd suggest he should be restored here, but with a citation tag. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)