Talk:The Dress

Requested move 22 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Participants argued that, per WP:DIFFCAPS, the recent RM consensus at The dress does not necessarily reflect titling concerns for the capitalized term "The Dress". When analyzing usage of the capitalized term, participants reached a consensus that the meme is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "The Dress" capitalized as such. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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The Dress → The Dress (disambiguation) – Per a recent RM at Talk:The dress, the meme is the primary topic. However, this meme can also be known in sources as "The Dress"[1][2], so there is no DIFFCAPS here. Move dabpage and retarget The Dress to the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

• Per WP:DPT, let's have a look at some stats. WikiNav for The Dress says there were 330 views of the list, and we could identify 51 outgoing clicks to the proposed primary topic, which is just ~15.5%. By far the most common source of traffic is The dress (249), so a lot of people seem to be clicking on the hatnote there to get to here, rather than vice versa. This indicates that there is no primary topic by usage. Is there an argument for primary topic for long-term significance? Seems doubtful for a meme that is just a decade old. (Oppose) --Joy (talk) 07:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose – "the dress" has essentially no competition for primary topic, while "The Dress" has several films of that name. Looks like WP:DIFFCAPS to me. jlwoodwa (talk) 20:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose WP:DIFFCAPS may apply given the uses on the DAB are clearly title case unlike the lower case primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
• Comment The article about the meme was created in February 2015 under the title The Dress [3]. It was moved to the lowercase The dress (viral phenomenon) in March 2015[4]. There's no talkpage discussion about this change, and it's not clear why "The dress" is a better title than "The Dress". 162 etc. (talk) 21:43, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. The dress should be renamed to The dress (photograph). Very definitely not primary topic for either the capitalised or lowercased form. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

  Problem is, The dress just went through RM and is the consensus primary topic. We can't change that. Having the disambiguation page at The Dress is incompatible with that consensus. 162 etc. (talk) 17:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

  That discussion established a consensus that the dress is the primary topic of the uncapitalized phrase "the dress". There is not, as of yet, a consensus on whether the dress is the primary topic of the capitalized phrase "The Dress". That's what this discussion is for. If you're concerned that a different consensus here would reflect a difference in participation more than the titles themselves, I'm happy to ping zxcvbnm, Station1, Meters, and Askarion (everyone else who participated in Talk:The dress § Requested move 15 September 2024). jlwoodwa (talk) 17:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

  As shown in reliable secondary sources, the meme is known as both "The Dress" and "The dress". The article only arrived at the title The dress after an undiscussed move that may or may not have been justified. I'm not convinced that these "typographically near-identical expressions have distinct meanings". And if they're not distinct, then they both have to point to the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 20:32, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that's not necessarily true. That RM was about a slightly different title formatting, and it was also not necessarily attended by the same audience. There are levels to consensus (WP:CONLEVEL) and it can also change (WP:CCC), so we shouldn't think about this in such strict terms, rather we should encourage more participation. The readership here is in the hundreds of thousands a month (mass views), the participation in the discussion won't necessarily be representative even if we had an ostensibly very clear consensus. --Joy (talk) 11:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support If the meme is primary for lowercase, it certainly is for uppercase. Not moving this page would be kind of a double standard in that case. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as while The dress is primary for the internet meme, The Dress isn't primary for anything. WP:SMALLDETAILS it is.JuniperChill (talk) 21:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.