Talk:The Fabulous Moolah/GA1

GA Review

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I'll be reviewing this article. At first glance, it appears to be a brilliant article and I'm looking forward to reviewing it! Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 16:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

One thing to think about immediately: Enhance the article with a picture, poster, or photo of Moolah at the height of her career --- whether posed or a "live action" shot of her in the ring. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 22:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I found a pretty good shot from the 1980s, so I've added that. Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Early life: I've reworked slightly for flow and to consolidate citations.

• Do we know her the names of her parents? They should be entered if available.
  • No. In her autobiography, she only refers to them as "Ma" and "Pa". Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
• This section could be enhanced greatly with some direct quotes from Moolah's autobiography --- especially regarding her first trip to the wrestling matches with her father. How did they impress her? Was she fascinated or nonplussed? Did she then wrestle with her brothers or other children?
  • Clarified plus quote. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
• Are there any anecodotes about her life in the South that she recalls in her memoirs? Enter as "blockquotes".
  • Not that would add anything, IMO. The only stories are about hunting lizards with one of her brothers or cooking biscuits for her dad...not the sort of thing that is encyclopedic. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Early career (1940s–1950s): Some minor reworking for flow.

• Please provide a definition for "valet" for those unfamiliar with the professional wrestling terms.
  • I linked the term to its definition at List of professional wrestling terms#V. I clarified the definition in the sentence: "accompanying him to the ring while providing eye candy for the male audiences and assisting Rogers against his opponents". Nikki♥311 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
• Did Ellison debut as Slave Girl Moolah at the match against June Byers in the Boston Arena in 1949? Please clarify.
  • She didn't get the name Slave Girl Moolah until later, so I'm assuming she wrestled the first match under her own name. In any event, I think I clarified that the name was given to her later. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
• Ellison seems to be involved in or pushed into sexual relationships with others. Where are her husband and daughter at this time? Need to establish this.
  • She divorced Walter within a few months of having Mary, so I've made that clear. Mary stayed with a friend. Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 13:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that some of the changes you made in the early life section included referring to her as Mary instead of Ellison. According to WP:SURNAME, the surname should be used. I haven't changed it back because you might be aware of some policy that I am not aware of... Nikki♥311 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

World Champion (1956–1970s)

• In the Early career section we have "to sleep with". I'm wondering if this phrase is strictly an American euphemism? Could we be more explicit and definitive for non-Americans that may not understand the phrase? For example, "to enter sexual relationships with" or something similar? I've returned "Ellison" to the Early life section and scratched "Mary".
  • I hadn't thought about that before, but it makes sense that a non-American might be confused by that. I changed it to your wording. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
• In the first sentence, do you mean "vacant World Women's Championship title"? Should title follow "Championship"? Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 17:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Title and championship are synonyms, so it is redundant to say both. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
• I don't understand the second sentence. Why did Wolfe's control of the promotion (of what? the NWA?) prevent her from being recognized? Clarify this sentence a bit for those not familiar with pro wrestling.
  • Clarified, I think. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• "Subsequently, Byers came out of retirement to challenge Moolah to a match for the title, which Moolah retained." Can you "beef" this up a bit with some juicy details or stretch it out a bit: "It was a hard fought match, but in the end, Moolah was victorious and retained the title." Keep it encyclopedic but provide some more details if possible. Stretch it out.
  • Done. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• "Moolah successfully defended the belt against the top female wrestlers in the world." Name a few of the most notable: "Moolah successfully defended the belt against ABC, 123, XYZ and other top female wrestlers in the world."
  • Done. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Any anecdotes about Elvis or Lewis? Did she date them? Did either dedicate a song to her or mention her in the lyrics?
  • Nothing like that, they were just friends. Lewis did visit her house at least once, so I added that. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
• Do you mean she physically "flipped football player Roosevelt Grier" over her shoulder or something? Or does "flip" mean something else in wrestling? I don't understand. Could you clarify.
  • Yep, physically. Clarified. Nikki♥311 01:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Great work here. I very much enjoy reading and reviewing this article!Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 17:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

• • I'm glad. Not everyone likes to review the wrestling articles, so I try my best to make them interesting and accessible to non-fans. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection (1980s)

• Great photo!
  • Thanks! Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
• Is "villainous" POVish? Rework it slightly: "Manager Lou Albano, who long had a reputation of being a villain..." with a citation, of course.

Otherwise fine here. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:26, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

• • He was a bad guy/villain character. I changed to your wording, and the citations already cover that he was a villain. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Semi-retirement

• Is Mae Young the Daisy Mae of the Early life section?
  • Nope. Mae Young is a wrestler friend, and Daisy Mae is totally different person. Nikki♥311 02:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Otherwise fine here. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Training and promoting

• Fine here. Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Other media

• Fine here but if you can add some material about the reviews for her book it would be a nice addition. For example: "The New York Times found her autobiography to be a penetrating behind the scenes look at professional wrestling, and the book continues to be a bestseller about the sport" Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The usual book reviewers don't usually review wrestling books, so I couldn't find very much that I would consider credible. I did find some criticism of her book in a SLAM Wrestling article, so I've added that. Nikki♥311 21:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Personal life

• I did some minor reworking for flow and longer paragraphs.
  • Thanks! Nikki♥311 04:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
• Is it Buddy Lee or Buddy Rogers? The lead mentions a Rogers.
  • Two different people. She managed Rogers early in her career. She married Lee awhile later. They either looked or acted similarly (I'm not too clear on it), which is why they were both given the nickname "Nature Boy". It's confusing, so I just removed the nickname from Buddy Lee's name to help distinguish them. He was not a prominent wrestler, so I think removing it should be okay. Nikki♥311 04:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Lead

• Tell us who Mildred Burke and Nature Boy are in relation to Ellison in the first paragraph of the lead. For example. "...wrestler and trainer Mildred Burke and professional wrestler Nature Boy ...". This will allow the reader to continue to read without resorting to the link.
  • Done. Nikki♥311 04:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Final review

I'm ready to pass this article to GA but await any input, questions, feedback from you before I do so. Good article! I enjoyed reading and reviewing it. I suggest expanding some of the sections, and sending it to peer review with an eye to FA! Kathyrncelestewright (talk) 21:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I left a message on your talk page awhile ago, but I guess I'll leave one here, too. Thanks for the review...I really appreciate it. What sections, in particular, do you suggest I expand before trying at FA? Nikki♥311 03:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

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This GA review was conducted by an account subsequently discovered to be operated by a user that made use of multiple accounts. Importantly, there is nothing that supports a concern passing their own GAs or passing 'sub-GA' articles authored by others occurred. In the interest of transparency and rigor, discussion agreed reviews against the underlying articles be checked.

The article received a clearly in-depth review, and was nominated by a highly-experienced GA reviewer. I've just a few comments:

• A statement by the nominator in the original review was: "Not everyone likes to review the wrestling articles, so I try my best to make them interesting and accessible to non-fans." As someone who isn't really a fan of wrestling, I'd like to point out you succeeded.
• The "Moolah Simply Fabulous" reference 404s; it looks like the site has changed the format of their URLs. The current link should be http://www.mikemooneyham.com/?p=128. It seems the author Mike Mooneyham has published books on wrestling (such as used here), so I'd think it qualifies as a reliable source.
• There's a couple've sentences in the part about training and promoting mentioning 'Mad Maxine', sourced to rspwfaq.com, a blog. A better source would need to be found if that material is to remain. I will point out, however, that neither the material, its cited reference, nor indeed any mention of the word 'maxine', appear in the version that was reviewed (listed in articlehistory template); they appear to have been introduced subsequently. The remainder seems well-sourced and referenced.

Overview: I've checked the article against the criteria. I agree with the review's pass of the article and with its comments. The review and GA status should stand. –Whitehorse1 03:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)