Talk:The Iron Throne (Game of Thrones)

Request for discussion

Hi everyone! I'd like to propose the following changes to the current plot summary for this article:

1) I'd like to restore the wording in the opening line to, "Jon and Davos survey the destruction that Daenerys Targaryen wrought on King's Landing after she took the city from Cersei Lannister."

I think the piece, “after she took the city from Cersei,” might be an important detail for the article's context as it is a contributing factor to setting up the culmination of Daenerys's story and describes the situation faced by characters afterward on what to do.

2) I'd like to restore the phrasing, "Unable to dissuade Daenerys, a conflicted Jon reaffirms his fealty to her and fatally stabs her as they kiss," instead of the current wording, "Jon pretends to reaffirm his fealty[...]". Because people have interpreted his final words to her in a variety of ways (whether meaning them in a personal way or to feign loyalty) and because no particular interpretation is confirmed, I think it may be best to just relay what happened on screen?

3) I think the current wording 'their love' might be a bit ambiguous in describing whose love is being referred to if a reader is not familiar with the story/episode. 'Jon's love' might be a bit clearer since Tyrion is arguing that despite Jon's love for Daenerys, it is specifically Jon's duty to kill her (as Tyrion references Jon's Night's Watch vows) and may illustrate the conflict set up for Jon in this episode.

However, if some feel Tyrion's admission of love is important to this wording, maybe the alternative phrasing, "Jon visits Tyrion in captivity, who tells Jon that despite the love they both have for Daenerys, it is Jon's duty to kill her for being the people's greatest threat," would work as well?

4) I think it might be important to restore the phrasing, "[...]who then departs with the Dothraki for his deceased-lover Missandei's homeland, Naath," to provide some context as to why he is going to Naath.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks :)

Anatashala (talk) 15:22, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

1) and 4) are unnecessary wordage imo - we already know as viewers that Missandei is from Naath and that Dany took KL from Cersei. 2) I agree with your argument. 3) I prefer the second option as Tyrion explicitly admits they both love Dany. Imlikeaboss (talk) 00:55, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi, @Imlikeaboss: It's very nice to talk with you! Thanks for considering my proposals! In regard to #1 and 4, my concern is for people who look up this article without context of previous episodes and may not have that knowledge we do as viewers. Can this be done in a concise way? For instance:

"Jon and Davos survey the destruction that Daenerys Targaryen wrought on a surrendered King's Landing."

This would be a word difference of two (a surrendered). I think this is an important detail since people looking up this summary who are just interested in how Game of Thrones ends might not be familiar with the story. I have the same feelings about Grey Worm sailing to Naath. They may not know it is the homeland of his dead lover Missandei. This would be a word difference of two as well (deceased lover).

To make up for this word addition, perhaps we can change, "As they begin planning to rebuild King's Landing, Bran, now King of the Six Kingdoms, briefly meets with the council and tasks them in finding new Masters of War and Whispers before departing with a newly knighted Podrick Payne to track down Drogon" to:

"As they begin planning to rebuild King's Landing, Bran meets with the council and gives them duties before tasking himself with finding Drogon."

This may be a more concise way to express that scene while describing the same plot points, cutting down on the word count. Thoughts?

Thanks again and nice to meet you! Anatashala (talk) 01:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Third opinion here, Jon Snow was not pretending, so that's fixed per consensus. The rest is complicated. I'll think about it for a while. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:52, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Thanks! If you come to some conclusions about the other points/have any other comments, please share! :) Anatashala (talk) 06:29, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Will do, slowly but surely. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

No rush, @InedibleHulk:! Take your time! And thanks! :) Anatashala (talk) 18:55, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

@Imlikeaboss: Hi again! I'm wondering about the new changes you made to the agreed upon wording per this discussion? (From "Unable to dissuade Daenerys, a conflicted Jon reaffirms his fealty to her and fatally stabs her as they kiss" to "Unable to dissuade Daenerys, a conflicted Jon reaffirms his fealty to her, but then fatally stabs her as they kiss.") Or perhaps I am mistaken that this was the agreed upon wording. If so, I apologize.

It's not so much this specific phrasing being important but my concern is that the latter phrasing again reads more like Jon was pretending with the use of 'but then' (with 'but' conveying a contrast of sorts like a pretense or change of heart). I think 'and then' is more neutral.

Additionally, per this discussion, I believe the idea is that Jon is conflicted about stabbing Daenerys. However, the current wording reads to me that Jon is conflicted about reaffirming fealty to Daenerys rather than the stabbing and his final words to her were a pretense. Can you please respond with your thoughts? Thank-you. Anatashala (talk) 10:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

If we just write "then", the "and" fans and "but" crowd could fill in the blank with anything they want (and so could we!). Even allows for "though" nuts and "however" maniacs. I'll try it, revert as needed. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@InedibleHulk: Thanks! I'm good with that compromise :) Anatashala (talk) 02:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Guest stars list

Should it be shortened to only the important guest stars? Pretty much everyone listed after Richard Rycroft is an unnamed extra. Afheather (talk) 13:09, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Audience score not allowed.

Audience are score not allowed. WP:USERGENERATED content from user voted web polls are not a WP:Reliable source. Also MOS:TVRECEPTION. I think the guidelines should be followed and that audience scores should not be included in this article.

I see there was a previous brief discussion: Talk:The_Iron_Throne_(Game_of_Thrones)/Archive_1#Audience_response.

The article contains a direct link to the IMDB score for this episode (not a reference from a WP:SECONDARY source). There is also a claim that this is the "lowest rated episode of the series". If the latter claim is true and reliable secondary sources reported it then it might be possible to make an exception and include the IMDB score but again, I think it would be better to follow the guidelines and not include it, the critics already point out the various flaws and problems people have with this episode, a score from a user voted web poll does not add any insight. -- 109.76.139.121 (talk) 16:50, 16 March 2022 (UTC)