Talk:The Laundry Files

Dead Lies Dreaming

cstross has explicitly said that Dead Lies Dreaming is not book 10 in the Laundry series.

The Delirium Brief is out.

The Delirium Brief was released today, and is in stores. I was able to buy a copy. John Nagle (talk) 06:31, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Robert E. Howard

I have some trouble with this section:

"While "Bob Oliver Francis Howard" matches the author of the original Conan the Barbarian stories, it is more likely to be a reference to the "Bastard Operator From Hell" which matches the protagonist's nominal systems administration job and his attitude towards field work.[7] Bob's boss in the Laundry uses the pseudonym "James Jesus Angleton", possibly out of a desire to irritate American intelligence agents.[8]"

The author of Conan is Robert E. Howard, so there's no match aside from the first and last name. I find this quite confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezekiel Stargazer (talk • contribs) 08:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree, I just ported that over here from the old article. It seems to be a totally made-up original claim. The bit about him being named after BOFH was referenced, but also not super-important, really. SnowFire (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

The "Oliver Francis" bit was added well into the series, so in the earlier stories it was natural to assume it was a reference to Robert E. Howard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.11.76.181 (talk) 03:24, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Ah... whatever. I agree that it's not important. Wastrel Way (talk) Eric —Preceding undated comment added 15:08, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

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The End

Charlie has explicitly stated that the Laundryverse timeline ends in 2015: "the Laundry Files series is the story of the Lovecraftian Singularity; it has to come to some sort of defining moment, doesn't it? And it's really hard to write past a singularity". I feel this should be acknowledged within the article in some way. DS (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Um, later on he disabuses us of this notion: "...Not exactly: the current planned story arc ends in 2015...". SlySven (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Frost Giant consuming the universe

SnowFire, regarding this reversion and the edit summary of "it's an unimportant detail. Don't really see the relevance of adding exactly how far along the drain-heat plan has gone, it's quite minor" - It is not a minor plot point; the Frost Giant has consumed all the energy in the universe so it needs the fusion bomb because there is no other source of sufficient energy left available to it. If there were it could just use a star or galaxy to force a portal, but it didn't think of that until it was too late.

There are multiple references and mentions during Bob's time in the depleted universe where he notes the lack of energy - the red shifting stars, indeed the stars going out, the drain on the probe & basilisk gun batteries, and the ambient temperature of the planet they're on, to name several.

It's an important plot point because otherwise there is no logical reason as to why the Frost Giant would create such a convoluted scheme in order leave the universe it is already in just to travel to Earth. It wants to travel because there is - literally - nothing left in the universe it currently inhabits.

Also as it is the text is somewhat misleading - Earth hasn't been "destroyed", just stripped of energy. If it were destroyed, how could they be gallivanting around on it? Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:33, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

If you want to have a go at rephrasing it, feel free, but just remember that this is a summary, not the entire book, and it's a summary that should focus on things the reader would care about (not necessarily the same as important things within the fiction). The "important" thing for the narrative is that human civilization has been destroyed IMO, and thus the Frost Giant would be a threat to do it again if allowed into Bob's reality. Regardless of whether everything else in the universe was in trouble too, it was pretty clear that Earth was a freezing wasteland, and that would be bad to have happen again. SnowFire (talk) 21:45, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I think the reader of a science-fiction/horror novel would care about the difference between a planet being stripped of energy, and the entire universe being stripped of energy - especially when that's the reason the Frost Giant wants to move to a new universe. The "important" thing for the narrative is that major plot points are brought up, and this is a major plot point. As said above the lack of energy in the universe - not just the frozen Earth - is stressed throughout Bob's stay on the planet, and of course is the reason the fusion bomb becomes so important as well.

The addition of "and has almost consumed all energy in the entire universe" doesn't lessen the fact that it has happened to alternative Earth and is an accurate statement of plot narrative.

The entire article needs a copy-edit, as it's a bit paperback-jacket in some places, and inconsistent in names in others. It could almost certainly be reduced in length as well to remove other minor points, and conversely to increase the length of the other sections, as it's quite imbalanced at the moment. Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Prose, lists, and style

@Anameofmyveryown: First, thanks for updating the article. Definitely don't want to scare you off here! That said, I think the style you have is off here.

• In an infobox, writing "see below" is almost always unnecessary, people understand that they need to read the full article if they want all the details. I've changed it to a direct link to the section, which I still think is a little questionable.
• Having a slash in a section title is almost always a mistake. Just spell it out, this isn't a text. Besides, they're near synonyms, so just say "Novellas".
• External links in the body of an article are frowned upon. See WP:EL. Now, I myself think they're merited at times and oppose people who reflexively remove them, but it doesn't make sense here. Direct links to copies are generally considered "spammy". The links are already correctly in the "External links" section, so there's no need to repeat them here.
• This is more minor, but the short stories that are compiled already are already discussed above. I don't see the merits in repeating them.
• You're removing the most important aspect: the Hugo Awards! The timeline stuff is a primary source; it shows existence but not notability. The reference that these novella won a Hugo both shows existence and notability. (Honestly I probably wouldn't have made all the timeline inclusions in prose either, it just isn't that important, it's more fun trivia... but not a big deal, and harmless I suppose if you disagree.)

Anyway, hope this doesn't come across as too nitpicky. I still need to catch up and read the middle books in the series... if you have any interest in working on the article still, go for it. Some external reviews / notice of the middle books would be great to add if you can find it, as a thought... the reviews of the Atrocity Archives are pretty handy from a Wikipedia perspective of valuing external, third party notice. SnowFire (talk) 18:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@SnowFire:. Good evening Snowfire. Thank you for the comments above.

• My edits are my attempt to come to terms with a worsening problem: Stross is publishing out of sequence. The three "Tales of the New Management" novels (DLD in Oct'20, Quantum of Nightmares in Mar'22, Season of Skulls in Dec'22) are set from December 2016 onwards. The next pure Laundry Files novel (which will either be the last or last-but-one) is provisionally entitled "The Valkyrie Confession", will be published next year or later and will be set before DLD. So the question becomes: do we order the article in order of publication (A Colder War, The Atrocity Archive, The Concrete Jungle, The Atrocity Archives, The Jennifer Morgue,...Season of Skulls, The Valkyrie Confession) or in-universe order, or by type (Novels, novellas, other works) and then by publication order. It's currently in by-type-then-by-pubdate, which is fine but means that the "novellas" section should include TAA and TCJ, even if only in passing. So my edits are not random but an attempt to solve a problem.
• We should also include a bit about how Stross's personal and external problems is affecting the series. Stross is now coming up to sixty, his parents just died, there's a pandemic, a paper shortage, and the publishing industry is going thru a revolution (some of his later books aren't coming out in hardback/paperback). He doesn't have the tech skills any more to keep up and his energy levels are lower due to age, family demands, and the requirement to finish The Merchant Princes. It's not a problem - I'll read anything he puts out - but it does mean that the ending might be abrupt and end in TVC, which was not the original plan.
• Yes, it will be useful to add reviews, reception et al. I'll have a look, see what I can dig out.
• If you're up to the middle novels, just wait until you get to "The Nightmare Stacks" onwards, which goes very cinematic: "The Nightmare Stacks" is a Tom Clancy novel in Leeds, "The Delirium Brief" is a Britpol political thriller, and "The Labyrinth Index" is Seven Days in May with added Concorde.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 23:16, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I suspect Stross's personal troubles might be more appropriate for the main Stross article, but fair enough to mention here when appropriate as well (e.g. for the delays in some of the new Merchant Princes books). For order of presentation, I'm generally in favor of publication order; the only reason that the novellas aren't in publication order is because they'd only be a sentence or two each if given separate sections. That said, if the Tales of the New Management is eventually spun off to a separate article, that might deal with the conflicting timelines - but should only be done after sufficient third party notice & criticism is included discussing them, of course.

I've been reading a bunch of non-fiction lately, but a good reminder to go pick at Stross some more... it's good stuff, of course. SnowFire (talk) 14:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)