Talk:The Madcap Laughs/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 14:05, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this, and I've got a bunch of issues just after the first few paragraphs. Here's a list of them - more will follow :

Background

• I can't emphasise this enough - you've really got to be careful about just attributing Syd's decline to psychedelic drugs. It was a common view about 25 years ago, sure, but it's been called into question more recently as to exactly how much it affected him, and to be honest, we'll never know now. There is, and probably always will be, controversy over exactly how his mental state declined as from July 1967 onwards, so it might just be simpler to say that his "behaviour became increasingly erratic and unpredictable".

• The cancelled National Jazz Blues Festival appears after the note about the Fillmore Show. They should be the other way round, in chronological order.

• Now the last sentence in the first paragraph is chronologically out of place. The Floyd set off on a US tour, then played the Fillmore. The article still has that backwards. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 22:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• Do you really need four references to cite the rest of the band not bothering to pick him up on 26/1/68? You can probably just get away with citing Schaffner and Povey. I have a copy of Povey to hand by my computer desk now (that's what joining WikiProject Pink Floyd does to you I guess) so I can pull out the relevant page number if I get a chance - it's most definitely documented in there.

• "Since Barrett had written" should read "Since Barrett had written or co-written"

• "originally the plan was" would probably read better as "the original plan was"

• Why do you need to reference Schaffner twice to cite the plan for him to be a background songwriter after January 68?

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 14:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Recording

• In the first sentence, it might be worth saying that Andrew King also left the band's management, to emphasise that the post Barrett Floyd's management was totally different (firstly Bryan Morrison, then more famously Steve O'Rourke).

• "north-west London" should read "northwest London", based on a random sample of London articles

• Can you cite that Barrett was the only musician during the '68 Jenner sessions?

I can't cite it, but I can't cite there were more musicians (which is false), either. Should I remove it? yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 14:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• It won't hurt to remove this, it doesn't add much --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 22:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• "most of the tracks were in better shape" - unless you can quote "better shape" from someone (Jenner?) it might be worth simplifying this to "progress continued on these tracks"

• "Barrett became a mess mentally and emotionally" - not really NPOV this. "Barrett abruptly stopped recording" might be better

• "After New Year 1969" - change to "By the start of 1969"

 Done, except 1 above. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 14:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Malcolm Jones sessions

• "impressively large sound effects library" - don't include "impressively large" unless you can find a quote for it

• Can you mention exactly when the Soft Machine came into the Jones sessions? From reading the article, it's flowing nicely through the recording process, and then they suddenly appear.

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

David Gilmour and Roger Waters sessions

• I've seen a television documentary that mentions the two day sprint - not sure where you can find it online (apart from bootleg copies on YouTube) but it might be nice to cite something else other than Jones.

 Done

Release

• Can you find any more reviews? There must be some kicking around, possibly on the Brain Damage archives?

Will check towards the end. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:27, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 16:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• "reached number 40 in the UK at the time" - don't need "at the time" on the end

• "fairly well-reviewed by music critics" - this is cited by a single review. You either need to cite multiple reviews for this, or something that states it received good reviews. I've done the latter for Ummagumma, where Nick Mason's book states verbatim that it got favourable reviews.

• Is Reference #40 a reliable source? Suppose they've typed it in wrongly, or misheard? Unlikely, but at a GA review, we need to make sure these things are right. The quote below it, immediately following another quote doesn't look right. This bit here needs work, I think.

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:27, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Can you clarify what you've done here exactly? --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I've removed "at the time", added a book which states that it was "well-reviewed by music critics". I can't find an alternative ref for #40 (it's an interview from a bootleg, typed out), should I removed the interview? yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 10:58, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Cover Artwork

• Do you really need to cite "Iggy The Eskimo" 3 times?

• Why is it important that she was of an Anglo-Pakistani descent? A much more favourable thing to cite would be how they met, how she didn't know who Barrett was, and Barrett playing her the tracks for the album prior to its release (thus tieing nicely back in with the main article)

 Done Sadly, none of the books (I have) mention how they met, I don't think Barrett did play her some tracks. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly.

You took out the reference! It's this one. The bottom paragraph on page 1 mentions what I've talked about above. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done. I'm suprised you didn't use the Colonel template. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 17:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, Colonel means stop, Trout just means you did something silly, but carry on afterwards! Anyway, "Iggy didn't know how Barrett was" should read "Iggy didn't know who Barrett was".

And don't put in the "she was of an Anglo-Pakistani descent" - it's irrelevant. But keep the other stuff cited from the article, definitely. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 22:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done Now, I don't mean to nitpick (although handling nitpicking is probably a useful skill for copying with the ogres over at FAC ;-D) but you don't need to cite reference 45 for each consecutive sentence. Just the last one will do. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done Down to last one. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 10:58, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Personnel

• This credits John Wilson with drums, but the article says it was Willie Wilson on bass. Which one's right?

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:11, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

References

• You cite Malcolm Jones (2003) several times. It appears to be online here, so it might be worth changing these to web references to improve verifiability.

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 14:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but the page numbers don't match. Reference #10 says page 1, but the text doesn't start until page 3. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

• Can you split the citations up into muliple panes? ie: using "reflist|2" or "reflist|3" template.

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:30, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Disambig

• Norman Smith should be Norman Smith (record producer)

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:35, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Dead Links

this returns HTTP 301, though its content seems to be okay. No other dead links reported

Not sure, what I'm meant to do here? yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Nothing! --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Lead

The lead is only one paragraph. For an article of this size, it might make more sense to break it up into at least two. The lead probably also wants to mention Jones, an important early contributor to the album, what label it was released on. Actually, I think "after Barrett had been replaced in the band Pink Floyd by his old school friend David Gilmour" is factually incorrect, as they were both in the band at the same time (albeit briefly). Change it to "after Barrett had left Pink Floyd in April 1968"

 Done yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 15:57, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Looks much better now. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I've finished. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 16:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

There's some more stuff for you to look at. Hopefully won't take too long, then we can pass this. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:20, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Few hours later, but done nonetheless. yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 22:25, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Okay - a few more comments and some advice on pictures below. We'll get there! --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:20, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Pictures

We can probably get some relevant pictures in here.

• Page 6 of Jones states "The very first take, with Syd and his blue speckled Fender Telecaster, was good" and Page 7 states "As usual, Syd played his blue Fender Telecaster, unamplified as rhythm". From that, I reckon you can use File:Johannes_et_Jacobus_Telecaster.jpg with a caption "Barrett used a Fender Telecaster, similar to this one, for recording rhythm guitar on the album" cited to the above pages. It looks similar enough to the real deal for GAN, but not for FAC. Don't use File:Syd Barrett Guitar .jpg - that's an Esquire.

• This photo on Geograph is near Syd's flat ie: where the album cover was shot. It's CC-BY-SA 2.0 so it can be used here, possibly with a caption like "The cover for the album was taken in Syd's flat in Wetherby Mansions near Earl's Court in London".

• And of course you can add File:Abbey road studios.jpg as that's where it was recorded.

 Done But, uh, could you check to see if I have applied the right license to the Wetherby Mansions file? yeepsi (Time for a chat?) 11:00, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

It's right now. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I think that's it - so I'm putting this on hold for now.

There were three other things I noticed, a small punctuation error on the new content about Iggy, I didn't think one of the references was reliable (the information is cited from other references anyway), and there wasn't a reference for the Telecaster. Rather than doing more ping-pong back and forth, I've fixed those myself. In which case, we're down to no remaining issues, so the review is now a pass. I'll update the GA status now. Well done. --Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:17, 15 August 2012 (UTC)