Talk:The Man Who Sold the World (album)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 20:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Will review this tomorrow --K. Peake 20:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Infobox looks good
• "and in the United Kingdom" → "and through the same label in the United Kingdom"

• Not necessary; it's why the label is stated first

• "in April and May 1970." → "during April and May of 1970."

• Not done; think it reads better as is

• The uses of "in" are too close to each other --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Good point, fixed

• Where is the part about the Spiders from Mars backed up?

• I knew there was something I forgot to mention in the aftermath section. Added

• Target acoustic to Acoustic music

• Done

• Nowhere is his previous album called folk rock

• Whoops; added to music and lyrics

• "his previous releases," → "his previous content,"

• Think it's fine the way it is

• Target B-sides to A-side and B-side

• Done

• "to other songs between" → "to singles between"

• Done; think it was like that originally

• "The album was released with" → "The Man Who Sold the World was released with"

• Think it's better as is for differentiation; don't want 3/4 paras starting with the album title

• If so, change the re-issue sentence to starting with the album's title --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done

• "wearing a blue "fish" dress designed by" → "wearing a blue dress that was designed by"

• Done

• "featuring black-and-white pictures of" → "featuring a black-and-white picture of"

• Done; again, original wording

• "was originally better received by critics" → "received generally better reviews from music critics" with the target

• Personally don't find the need to link that; changed it to "...received critically"

• It is commonly done in articles mentioning music critics. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done, but not the link as I find that unnecessary

• "both countries; its 1972 reissue managed" → "both countries; however, the 1972 reissue managed"

• Done

• "has been praised for" → "has been praised by critics for"

• Done

• "of its music and lyrics. Multiple critics have since considered the album to be" → "of the music and lyrics, while since being considered to be"

• Changed to "music and lyrics, with many considering"

• "The album has since been" → "It has since been"

• Done

• "will be remixed in 2020, under its original title Metropolist, for its 50th anniversary." → "will received a 50th anniversary remix in 2020, under the original title of Metropolist."

• We can leave this sentence as is. The reissue is being released next week so it'll be changed to past tense anyways

Background

• "David Bowie's breakthrough single" → "Bowie's breakthrough single" with the target

• Forgot to mark done on this one – zmbro _(talk) 19:19, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• "bringing Bowie commercial success" → "bringing him commercial success"

• That's embarrassing; done

• Mention the album being his second studio album for context and add release year in brackets

• That's not necessary, as it mentions "Space Oddity" being July 1969. Maybe add "released later that year"?

• Yeah the latter sounds fine. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done

• Quote box should use speech marks and wikilink Mick Woodmansey

• Done, forgot this one. These types of boxes with no quote marks are ok to use.

• Target the Marquee to Marquee Club

• Done

• "For their performances," → "For the group's performances,"

• Done

• "on 20 March," → "on 20 March 1970,"

• Done, but it kinda makes it redundant as a sentence before it says "February 1970"

• [9] should be solely at the end of the sentence

• Must have had a different page number there originally. Fixed.

• "was a giant" → "with a giant"

• Oops

• "on 11 March," → "on 11 March 1970,"

• Again kind of redundant but sure

• "at the end of March," → "at the end of March 1970,"

• No, straight overkill at that point

• It is not advisable to say March without saying a year or "that year" when it isn't close enough. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Added 'that year'

• "that it was" → "that the dismissal was"

• Done

• [7][4] should be put in numerical order

• Done

• Target rock & roll to Rock and roll

• Done

• Target Edwardian to Edwardian era

• Already linked, just a redirect

• Fix the redirect then. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done

• "staircase at Haddon," → "staircase at Haddon Hall,"

• Done

Recording

• "play the Moog synthesiser," → "play the Moog synthesizer,"

• Nope, British spelling

• Fix the target though. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Redirects don't always need to be fixed.

• Why do you believe in fixing some, but not all of them? --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done – zmbro _(talk) 16:05, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Mace was a" → "At the time, Mace was a"

• Done

• Wikilink classical music

• Done

• "his contract with his manager Kenneth Pitt" → "his contract with Pitt"

• Must've forgotten I mentioned him earlier

• "on 21 April and" → "on 21 April 1970 and"

• No, the reader is not going to forget what year it is two sentences later

• You should do this unless it is one sentence later. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Yeah I guess you're right, done

• "the rest of April until mid-May." → "the rest of April, until mid-May."

• Comma makes it seem like it's a separate point, which it isn't

• "On 4 May, the group recorded" → "On 4 May of that year, Hype recorded"

• Again no, straight overkill

• You have stated "the group" more recently, --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Think this response was an answer to "of that year". Changed "the group" to "the band" as by this point I believe they had stopped performing as Hype

• "back to Advision on 12 May and completed on 22 May." → "back to Advision Studios on 12 May 1970 and completed 10 days later."

• Only changed to "ten days later" because it reads better

• Remove target on Angie but are you sure she shouldn't be referred to as Burnett like earlier on in the article?

• Removed but "with his new wife Burnett" is just not right

• "all music on the album," → "all music on The Man Who Sold the World,"

• Done

• "quoted Visconti saying" → "quoted Visconti as saying that"

Fixed

• "1998 interview as saying" → "1998 interview as saying,"

• Done

• Target chord to Chord (music)

• To me that's totally unnecessary

• "like that"." → "like that."" since a full sentence is quoted

• Moved quote outside but not sure where you got the second one from

Music and lyrics

• Quote box should use speech marks and target Mojo to Mojo (magazine)

• Added link

• "largely acoustic music of Bowie's second album." → "largely acoustic sound of Space Oddity." with the target

• Partially done; already linked above

• Target music critic to Music journalism

• That's not necessary to me

• Explained for the lead. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• "describes the album as" → "described the album as"

• Done

• "writes that the album is" → "writes that it is"

• Done

• "According to Spitz, Ronson was intent on making" → "According to Marc Spitz, Ronson was intent to make" with the wikilink

• Done

• "darker than its predecessor." → "darker than those on Space Oddity."

• It's fine as is

• "they contains numerous themes" → "they contain numerous themes"

• Oops

• "of the decade," → "of the 1970s decade,"

• Sure

• "sexual possession."" → "sexual possession"."

• Done

• "has also been seen" → "have also been seen"

• Whoops

• Introduce the studio albums as Bowie's fifth and eighth, while add release years in brackets and target Ziggy Stardust to the album's page

• Done

• "He continues that the songs" → "He continues, saying that the songs"

• Done

Side one

• "is an 8-minute epic" → "is an eight-minute epic" per MOS:NUM

• Right my bad

• Target feedback to Audio feedback

• Done

• Remove target on "All the Madmen"

• Done

• "It contains a" → "The song contains a"

• Done

• "an atmosphere that Buckley" → "an atmosphere, which Buckley"

• Done

• "describes the Moog synthesiser as" → "describes the Moog synthesizer as"

• No, British spelling

• Remove the wikilink then. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done

• "giving it a" → "noting the synthesizer gives it a"

• Changed to ", noting that it gives the track"
• Not necessary

• "A blues-rock and" → "A blues rock and"

• Done

• [45][3] put in numerical order

• Done

• "impersonates Marc Bolan in" → "impersonates Bolan with"

• Removed Marc

• "different than the rest of the album," → "different from the rest of The Man Who Sold the World,"

• Done

• Remove wikilink on folk rock

• Done

• "Similar to "The Supermen", it references" → "Similarly to "The Supermen", the song references"

• Done

• "of Friedrich Nietzsche and has been" → "of Nietzsche, and has been"

• Done

Side two

• "specifically the 1968 My Lai Massacre." → "specifically the Mỹ Lai massacre of 1968."

• Done

• "of the album and points to" → "of The Man Who Sold the World and points towards"

• No, getting very repetitive, the reader won't forget the name of the album at this point

• You cannot just write "the album" repeatedly in different sections; if the title is not close enough, you have to re-write it. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• K done – zmbro _(talk) 20:27, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• "enhances this scenario." → "enhances the scenario."

• Done

• [54][43] put in numerical order

• Done

• "Like most of the tracks," → "Like the majority of the tracks,"

• Done

• "The lyric explores a" → "The lyrics explore a"

• Done

• You should mention who "You Shook Me" is by originally and add the release year in brackets; also add "Love in Vain" release year in brackets

• I was originally going to but the ref doesn't give the original artist (I know it's Muddy Waters) or year so that'd technically be OR

• Remove target on title track

• Done

• "Its lyrics are" → "The song's lyrics are"

• Changed to just "The"

• Add release year of the poem in brackets

• Done

• "The song's narrator has an" → "The narrator has an"

• Done

• Target chorus to Refrain

• Completely unnecessary

• Not really, since that is a very relevant article. --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• I disagree – zmbro _(talk) 20:27, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• "are found on the rest of the album." → "are included on the rest of The Man Who Sold the World."

• Again, readers know the name at this point

• "features guiro percussion," → "features güiro percussion,"

• Done

• Remove target on "The Superman"

• Done

• "reflects the themes of Friedrich Nietzsche," → "reflects the themes of Nietzsche,"

• Done

• ""period piece" and later" → ""period piece", and later"

• Done

Cover artwork

• "he used a photograph" → "Weller used a photograph"

• Done

• "as an allusion to" → "to be an allusion to"

• Done

• "to have the line" → "to include the line"

• Done, the majority of this section was not written by me so sorry about that

• "According to Bowie biographer Nicholas Pegg," → "According to Pegg,"

• Done, forgot I mentioned him earlier; tend to expand out of order

• Full-stop should not be in the quote since it is not a full sentence; maintain consistency

• Done, sorry!

• "been said that his" → "been said that Bowie's"

• Done

• "the photo, were inspired" → "the photo were inspired"

• Done

• "successfully lobbied the label" → "successfully lobbied the record label"

• Done

• "for the record's release in" → "for the release in"

• Done

• "of the as-yet-unreleased" → "of the then-unreleased"

• Done

• "The 1971 German release presented" → "The 1971 German release's artwork presented"

• Done, it's funny for the fun of it I just looked up this cover to see if it's as bad as it sounds and oh god it's horrible xD

• "This image remained" → "The image remained"

• Done

Release

• "in the US by Mercury Records" → "in the US by Mercury"

• Done

• "by Mercury," → "by the aforementioned record label"

• That just adds way too much

• "from his preferred title" → "from his preferred title of"

• Done

• "persuade the label to retitle the album Holy Holy (after" → "persuade the record label to retitle the album to Holy Holy after"

• Done

• Remove the brackets at the end of the sentence too

• Done, btw brackets [] are not the same as parentheses ()

• "frequently and its" → "frequently and the"

• Done

• "that it developed an" → "that The Man Who Sold the World developed an"

• Done, definitely ok here

• Wikilink on the album is not needed since you did that earlier; maybe refer to it as Ziggy Stardust again?

• Yeah you're right, fixed

• "Mercury Records released "All the Madmen" as" → "Mercury released "All the Madmen" as"

• Done

• ""Janine" (from the previous album)" → ""Janine" from the previous album"

• Change to "from Space Oddity

• Target B-side to A-side and B-side

• Done

• "in Eastern Europe in 1973," → "in Eastern Europe during 1973,"

• Done

• Remove wikilink on "The Width of a Circle"

• Done

• Remove wikilink on "Black Country Rock"

• Done

• "as the B-side of" → "as the B-side to"

• I've always used "B-side of"

• Remove wikilink on "Holy Holy"

• Done

• "shortly before the album." → "shortly before the release of The Man Who Sold the World."

• Done

• Remove wikilink on "Space Oddity"

• Done

• Target "Life on Mars?" to Life on Mars (song)

• Done

Commercial performance

• "nowhere else."" → "nowhere else"."

• Done

• "the album peaked at" → "The Man Who Sold the World peaked at"

• Done

Critical reception

• "Upon release, The Man Who Sold the World was generally more well-received critically in" → "The Man Who Sold the World was met with generally more positive reviews from music critics in"

• It's fine as is

• "and commented that producer Tony Visconti's" → "and commented that Visconti's"

• Done, believe that was there before expansion

• "top-ten albums for" → "top 10 albums for" per MOS:NUM

• Done

• "In a review for AllMusic, senior editor Stephen Thomas Erlewine complimented its" → "Erlewine complimented the album's"

• Done

• "Erlewine viewed its music" → "He viewed its music"

• Done

• "adding that" → "adding that:"

• Done

• "Bowie's best albums"." → "Bowie's best albums.""

• Done

• "Q called it" → "the staff of Q called it"

• Changed to "a writer for" as I'm sure it was only one person

• "while Mojo wrote," → "while a Mojo columnist wrote,"

• Done, although it's already linked above

• "thrilling abandon again"." → "thrilling abandon again.""

• Done

• "Comparing it to" → "Comparing The Man Who Sold the World to"

• Done

• ""more effective" and" → ""more effective", and"

• Done

Aftermath and legacy

• "and on stage." → "and on the stage."

• In this case 'stage' is a general term. Doesn't mean one stage

• "and his new manager Tony Defries was" → "and Defries, his new manager, was"

• Sure

• "he would see the artist" → "he would see the musician"

• Worded the same way in Hunky Dory

• "also departed due to other personal conflicts with the artist." → "also parted ways due to other personal conflicts with Bowie."

• Sure

• [95][80] put in numerical order

• Done

• "his best work with Bowie until" → "his best work with him until Bowie's fourteenth studio album"

• Fine as is

• You should introduce the album --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Done – zmbro _(talk) 16:04, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Despite the commercial flop" → "Regardless of the commercial flop"

• Definitely reads better as is

• Why should two sentences start with the same word? --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• That's actually a good point I didn't realize that until now. "Regardless" is just not the right word in this scenario though. Rearranged the sentence to "Although his new single "Holy Holy", recorded in autumn 1970 and released in January 1971, was a commercial flop,..." That better? – zmbro _(talk) 16:04, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Yes that is a fine sentence. --K. Peake 16:26, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• "on the follow-ups" → "on the follow-up albums"

• Done

• Add release year of Hunky Dory in brackets

• Done

• "He also convened with" → "Bowie also convened with"

• Done

• "Author David Buckley has described that record as" → "Buckley has described the album as"

• Done, have no idea how "that record" came to be put there

• "Erlewine cites" → "Erlewine cited"

• Done

• "writing "Musically, it" → "writing: "Musically, it"

• Done

• "1971's Hunky Dory." → "1971's Hunky Dory.""

• Done, that's embarrassing

• "and important albums" → "and most important albums"

• Done

• "John Foxx and" → "John Foxx, and"

• No, British English

• Wikilink glam rock

• Done

• "the release of this album," → "the release of The Man Who Sold the World,"

• Done, that was definitely there before expansion – zmbro _(talk) 20:30, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• "attributed to Marc Bolan's appearance" → "attributed to Bolan's appearance"

• Done

• Target Nirvana to Nirvana (band)

• Done

• "listed it at No. 45 in his top 50 favourite albums." → "listed it at number 45 on his top 50 favourite albums list."

• Done, believe it was like that before expansion

• "(produced by Bowie and Ronson)" → "that was produced by Bowie and Ronson"

• Changed to "which was"

• Remove target on Nirvana

• Done

Reissues

• Target CD to Compact disc

• Done

• Target EMI to EMI Records

• Done

• Wikilink bonus tracks per MOS:LINK2SECT

• Done

• "originally issued as" → "that was originally issued as"

• Done

• "incorrectly list the" → "incorrectly listed the"

• Done

• "the album was reissued again" → "The Man Who Sold the World was reissued again" to avoid confusion with compilation album

• Good point, done

• Target Virgin to Virgin records

• Done

• "in CD, vinyl," → "on CD, vinyl," with the target

• Done

• "of this compilation" → "of the compilation"

• Done

• "under its working title" → "under its working title of"

• Done

• "its 50th anniversary. It will" → "the 50th anniversary. The reissue will"

• Done

• "original Michael J. Weller artwork as" → "original artwork by Weller as"

• Done

• "For this release, Tony Visconti has" → "For the release, Visconti has"

• Done, think this was written by someone else

Track listing

• Add a source to verify that Bowie wrote the songs, as well as one to verify the bonus tracks

• Added, sorry about that

Personnel

• Target Mooog synthesiser to Moog synthesizer

• Fine as a redirect

• See previous comment --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Fixed

Charts

• The tables should be split from each other properly

• Fixed

• See MOS:TABLECAPTION

• Should be fine now

• UK Albums Chart → UK Albums (OCC) but only have the targets for the first time

• Added OCC but Chart should be there

• No it shouldn't, look at how the chart template displays this chart to understand --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Believe I fixed this and forgot to mention it. My bad – zmbro _(talk) 15:44, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Target FIMI to Federazione Industria Musicale Italiana

• Done

• Add (Billboard) in brackets for the Top Pop Catalog Albums chart

• Done

References

• Copyvio score looks poor at 45.4%; fix ref 3 to solve this

• Removed a small non-important tidbit so hopefully that does it. Otherwise a direct quote is used and I'm not sure what else can be done about that.

• You can reduce the amount of quoting --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Real dunce moment right there xD; should be fixed now. – zmbro _(talk) 16:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Make sure all of these that can be are archived by using the tool

• They are

• Mojo should not be capitalised for ref 13 and target to Mojo (magazine)

• Done

• Wikilink AllMusic on ref 26

• Done

• WP:OVERLINK of AllMusic on refs 28 and 108

• Done

• Fix MOS:QWQ issues and WP:OVERLINK of AllMusic with refs 47, 52, 53, 61 and 65

• Sorry force of habit

• WP:OVERLINK of Ultimate Classic Rock on ref 58

• Done

• Target Parlophone to Parlophone Records on ref 72

• It's just Parlophone

• WP:OVERLINK of David Bowie on ref 76

• Done

• Are you sure ref 85 is a reliable source?

• After I saw its use in the FA Aftermath (Rolling Stones album), I saw it was. I've since used Acclaimed Music in the majority of Bowie's albums I've been expanding and recently I used it in the FA Hunky Dory

• WP:OVERLINK of Rolling Stone on ref 90 and remove the publisher

• Done

• Remove the author from ref 92 and fix WP:OVERLINK of Mojo

• Done

• Wikilink Virgin Records on ref 113 and target EMI to EMI Records

• Done

• WP:OVERLINK of Rolling Stone on ref 114

• Done

• Fix MOS:CAPS issues with refs 116 and 120

• Done

• WP:OVERLINK of Billboard on ref 121

• Done

Bibliography

• Target ABC-CLIO to ABC-Clio

• Done

External links

• Good

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold and I am willing to respond to any queries you have about my suggested changes; I have noticed that you have some great written skills though! --K. Peake 09:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Kyle Peake Thanks for the review and your kind words. I honestly knew this wasn't ready for GA yet, due to so many basic errors you pointed out. I don't like nominating articles until I know they're fully ready and for this one, I just said what the hell. Still, thanks for reviewing, looking forward to our future interactions. – zmbro _(talk) 20:33, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

• Zmbro Have made responds to any changes that still need implementing, good work though! --K. Peake 07:51, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Kyle Peake Done. Happy Halloween btw! :-) – zmbro _(talk) 16:06, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

• Zmbro ✓ Pass after a quick and thorough response from you, kudos man and stay in touch for sure; happy Halloween! --K. Peake 16:26, 31 October 2020 (UTC)