Talk:The Muse in Arms

Noel Marcus Francis Corbett

A large chunk of information on the poet and Naval commander Noel Marcus Francis Corbett (1887-1962) comes from here, which is an auction site and may one day be taken down. Find out how to do a web archive citation. The death year is from here (a list of British Naval officers-in-charge for the Faroe Islands), which needs confirming elsewhere. Carcharoth (talk) 13:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Some redlinks can be turned blue

Some of the redlinked authors could have articles written about them.

• Noel Marcus Francis Corbett
• Ronald Arthur Hopwood
• Harley Matthews
• John William Streets
• Leslie Coulson

Those four five could all have fairly substantial articles eventually. Carcharoth (talk) 20:38, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Additions

Need to bring out some of the biographical information into the article, and separate the references and the notes (i.e. learn how to do those notes footnotes which can then be separately referenced). Bring in the rank and army regiment and other details from the list of authors in the book, but keep that in the footnotes. Bring in a sentence or two on the death, or the later career, for each author, where known. For some, the only information is what is in the list of authors. Also list other poetry by these authors, focusing on what they had published at the time, or what was published around the same time, either in other anthologies or (this taking precedence) collections of just their own work. Carcharoth (talk) 19:16, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Poetry

Should be more in the book on the poetry. How many poems and the titles for each author, and possibly a precis of each poem. But at some point, it will morph (if it hasn't already) from a Wikipedia article into a Wikibooks-type or Wikisource-type article. So beware of going too far in that direction. To help avoid that, secondary analysis of individual poems (if it exists) should be added. Carcharoth (talk) 19:17, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Number of poems contributed

• One: Streets, Dennys, Hopwood, I.C., Imtarfa, Roma White, Frankau, Hutcheon, Perowne, W. Grenfell, C.A.A., Max Plowman, Ratcliffe, Palmer, Wilkinson, Mackintosh, Matthews, A.J., Dorothy Plowman
• Two: Brooke, Sassoon, Sitwell, MacGill, Robertson, Asquith, James, Corbett, O., Herbert, Winterbotham, Graham, Robins, Jenkins
• Three: Tennant, Graves, Rose-Troup, Coulson
• Four: Hodgson, Shanks, Gurney, J. Grenfell, Sorley, Littlejohn, Moncrieff, Stirling, Lee
• Five: Alchin, Hussey, Philipps
• Six: Harvey
• Seven: Weaving
• Eight: Nichols

52 authors and 131 poems: 19 contributed one poem (19); 14 contributed two poems (28); 4 contributed three poems (12); 9 contributed four poems (36); 3 contributed 5 poems (15); 1 contributed 6 poems (6); 1 contributed seven poems (7); and 1 contributed 8 poems (8); total of 131. Carcharoth (talk) 20:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

This is definitely not a stub

But it is not yet a B also, just because some of the military stuff could be added: what kinds of units were some of these men in, can you place some of this in context of campaigns and battles, etc. Auntieruth55 (talk) 01:22, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment and re-assessment. For those with articles, I've been leaving that for people to read in the articles. For those without articles, I will try and expand a bit more here. One astonishing thing I've managed to stumble across is that one of the anonymous authors (C.A.A.) is identified elsewhere as Cyril Argentine Alington. So you really do never know what it is possible to turn up if you keep reading a bit further. What I want to do now is give a bit more context on what battles some of them died in, if that is possible. I would want to tie anything along these lines more into the poetry and the book, as other stuff would be more suitable for the articles on the poets. Carcharoth (talk) 02:15, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Known details of deaths, ages and military services

• Brooke - 23/04/1915 (27) - blood poisoning - "died in the Aegean"
• Coulson - 07/10/1916 (27) - kia - probably Somme casualty - "he had fallen in the forefront of a charge against the German position near Lesboeufs, on 7th October 1917" [1], (1917 appears to be an error here, as the year of death was 1916)
• Dennys - 24/07/1916 (32) - dow - Somme Offensive - "wounded in Somme advance" [2]
• Julian Grenfell - 27/05/1915 (27) - dow (incidental shell injury, not in battle) - death described here
• Gerald Grenfell - 30/07/1915 (25) - kia - Menin Gate, hence Ypres Salient - no precise details found
• Hodgson - 01/07/1916 (23) - kia - Somme Offensive - confirmed here
• Jenkins - 31/12/1917 (25) - presumed died back home (buried in Richmond, London) - died in aircraft accident after joining RFC [3]
• Littlejohn - 10/04/1917 (26) - kia - "sniped at the Battle of Arras" [4]
• Mackintosh - 21/11/1917 (24) - kia - Battle of Cambrai [5]
• Palmer - 21/01/1916 (27) - dow - "on the Tigris" - Basra Memorial - Palmer was taken prisoner and died in a "Turkish camp", hence his commemoration on the Basra Memorial [6]
• Philipps - 13/05/1915 (26) - kia - Menin Gate, hence Ypres Salient - "killed in action near Ypres" [7]
• Ratcliffe - 01/07/1916 (29) - probably Somme casualty - no further details
• Robertson - 01/07/1916 (34) - kia - Thiepval Memorial, hence Somme casualty - died in advance "near Albert" [8]
• Robins - 05/05/1915 - (36) kia (gassed) - Hill 60 [9]
• Sorley - 03/10/1915 (20) - kia - Loos Memorial - Battle of Loos - "killed in action at Hullach" [10]
• Sterling - 23/04/1915 (21) - kia - "after holding his trench all day against the enemy onslaughts" [11]
• Streets - 01/07/1916 (31) - kia - Somme Offensive [12]
• Tennant - 22/09/1916 (19) - kia - Somme Offensive - "fell in battle on the Somme" [13]
• Wilkinson - 09/10/1917 (26) - Tyne Cot Memorial, probably Ypres Salient - "leading his company in the attack on Passchendaele Ridge" [14]
• Winterbotham - 27/08/1916 (age not given) - kia - Thiepval Memorial, hence Somme casualty - no precise details found

Possibly some details of the above can go in the article. Carcharoth (talk) 03:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

I have now found more military service details for those who died, with the details found in this book (For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war - 1918), and am adding links and details above, and will then integrate into the article. Carcharoth (talk) 14:20, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Now added to article. Just a picture to add and then will re-submit for assessement. Carcharoth (talk) 15:16, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I think thesedetails might be better presented in the article as a table, rather than a bulleted list. Better still a sortable table, so that readers could resort by rank (allowing them to more easily see, for example, that most are indeed officers) and possibly by regiment. I also wonder if we need quite so much biogrpahical info in the footnotes, particularly when an article exists. Saying further info can be found at CWGC seems a bit odd when there's an article here which will usually have much more (though not necessarily of the same provenance of course). Normally CWGC will be of course by far the most convenient ref for death and service details so ti certianly does make sense to include links to CWGC. David Underdown (talk) 17:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Meant to also say, may be getting a bit distant, but a cousin of the two Grenfell poets, Francis Octavius Grenfell was a WWI VC, he and his twin brother were both killed in the war. His article mentions various other family military connections. David Underdown (talk) 17:39, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

A little bit distant, but yeah, the Grenfell family is interesting. Carcharoth (talk) 19:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

A table is something I've been considering. Really, there is too much biographical information in this article. I added it here as there were no articles on many of the poets, but some at least there is enough information here and elsewhere for articles. Hopefully it will all come out in the wash when the information gets moved to the right places as articles are created (where possible). Carcharoth (talk) 19:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Portraits of the poets

Arthur Lewis Jenkins

Portraits of several of the poets in this anthology appear in For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war. For now, putting one here, to go with the grave casket picture in the article. Additional material on Jenkins is here, with one of his poems reproduced in that memorial book here. Carcharoth (talk) 01:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)