Talk:The Owl House

Redirect search querues to the article

Instead if search results page, navigate straight to the article after search queries like "Owl House TV Series"

Mikhaelkh (talk) 08:58, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

"Dog-like"

I don't know, King looks more wolf-like; hence the claws and bushy tail.
XSMan2016 (talk) 11:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Well actually hes a TITAN of the boiling isles. 158.222.90.19 (talk) 20:55, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

He's a titan, yes, but if we're comparing him to what animal he looks like, he looks like a wolf more than a dog. If we want to get more specific (but more fictional) he resembles a fluffier black version of the Pokémon "Cubone". 2601:58B:1281:A840:F8C4:4918:27A5:3E4E (talk) 02:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Split episode list into its own article

I have added a split template to suggest that the list of episodes and summaries be moved to a new article titled List of The Owl House episodes, as they add a ton of length to the article. I don't think this would be a controversial split, but I thought I would put it up for discussion first. Emflazie (talk) 19:09, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• There is only one season of the show, and there is only five shorts made for the series. So, not happening. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 19:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

The article as it exists currently is over 100kB, which is well within WP:SIZESPLIT's guidelines to split the article. A significant portion of that is the episode summary section, which will only get longer as new episodes air. I think it is reasonable to split the article. Emflazie (talk) 19:46, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• Here's the plan, how about you shorten the episode summaries. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 21:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

The length of the episode summaries is not the problem! If you shorten them just because you think they're not long enough, you'll reduce the quality of the episode summaries. What do I mean with "shorten them because they're not long enough?" You say that with just one season, the section with the episode summaries is not long enough to warrant splitting it off. Because you do not want to split them off, you propose to shorten that section so the summaries no longer make up the bulk of this article. Either split it or leave it be, don't shorten it. Regarding splitting, I don't have a strong opinion on that. Digital Brains (talk) 08:33, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

It's true that some of the episode summaries (at least in the second half of the season) are a bit long, but most are pretty close to 200 words, which is about how long TV summaries are supposed to be, and trying to cut down would be both unnecessary and detract from the quality. I do think the later episodes could be shortened by ~100 words or so, but as the summaries make up almost half the article, it isn't enough to help the length issue (although the consensus seems to be to not split). Emflazie (talk) 14:38, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Hmm. Considering what @Emflazie and @Digital Brains are saying, I don't think the summaries should be shortened. I think removing them at the present time would weaken the article. But, when Season 2 begins and there are more episodes, then perhaps they can be spun off into their own article.Historyday01 (talk) 15:09, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

From the looks of it, some of them surely should be shortened – "Plot sections should summarize the core storyline(s), but not offer a scene-by-scene sequence of everything that happens, or attempt to evaluate, interpret or analyze it." This is straight from MOS:TVPLOT. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Historyday01, I don't know when season 2 is supposed to air, but I think that is the best course of action, since consensus doesn't support splitting the article right now. Emflazie (talk) 15:19, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree, it does seem like the best course at this current time and place.Historyday01 (talk) 15:20, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose until there is a third season. It is a massive misreading of MOS:TVSPLIT to think that a LoE split is appropriate now, or even after this gets a second season. It requires about 50 episodes before a separate LoE article is justified. This show is nowhere near that. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:46, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I think a page is needed this page is at 114K series two should put this at 150-200K, and there will be more I think we should work on a darft just before the second series (like start the darft in janury) it is not relly the amount of epiodes, it more overall size both DT after only 29 whiles BH6 after 42 epiodes Fanoflionking 17:35, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Not a bad idea, @Fanoflionking, to start a draft page before the second series begins, then it would be easy to move the information over when the episode list goes over the word limit.Historyday01 (talk) 21:04, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Again, no: it's about the "page size in prose" – page coding, like the template coding for the episodes tables does not count towards this. You all need to read WP:SIZESPLIT more carefully – it explicitly says "Readable prose size", not "total page size". At this article too, the 'Characters' section, and probably the episode summaries, are over-written, and should be trimmed. Now this article has more readable prose because of the 'Reception' section (and, considering its length, I wonder if this section is over-long and WP:UNDUE currently). But even thinking about splitting before season #1 is done is completely wrong-headed, and a split really shouldn't happen until after a second season, when a third season starting up. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@IJBall, I don't think the reception section should be trimmed, because LGBTQ representation is an important part of the article. However, if size is an issue, I'd be willing to move most of it to the "History of LGBTQ characters in animated series: 2020s" page, which has a section about The Owl House. However, moving it there may result in less people updating the content, making the section weaker as a result. But, I'd only agree to the content being moved if there is a consensus for such a movement of content. While I'm not sure if episode summaries should be limited, perhaps the character section should be trimmed. I will agree with you that a split shouldn't happen until the second season has concluded, sure, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to begin writing a draft article now, and updating it, so it would be easy to move the content when that is necessary. Historyday01 (talk) 14:02, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

as said above The length of the episode summaries is not the problem! If you shorten them just because you think they're not long enough it should be overall page not just perfice sectons Fanoflionking 09:23, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

You quote me, but I think you misunderstood what I meant. I'm not familiar with the manual of style regarding TV series. I just wanted to say that not wanting to split the article is a very poor reason to shorten it. But there may be other valid reasons for shortening something. I'm not taking a stance on that either this way or that. I have my personal opinion, but the manual of style is the guideline, my opinion is not. Digital Brains (talk) 10:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@Digital Brains, you are right, not wanting to split the article is not a reason to shorten it. I'd say that if no one responds to this discussion in a week that this discussion is closed. That's my thought at least. Historyday01 (talk) 03:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Maybe when there's more episodes (mid season 2 maybe?) We can make a episode list article but it really doesn't need it yet. ConstructorRob18 (talk) 22:38, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

@ConstructorRob18, I agree completely. Its not needed at the present. Historyday01 (talk) 03:00, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I recommend to just wait until we get a third season, what @IJBall saids, please wait until the show reaches 50 half-hour episodes. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 12:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Split Episodes into separate list by mid Season 2

This is a bit of a branch from another discussion but I suggest that by mid Season 2 we should make a separate article for the list of episodes. This is because The Owl House doesn't have 2 11 minutes episodes in 1 full episode, they make 22 minute episodes that air by themselves. Since there are only 19 episodes at the time I see no need yet, but we should do that by mid Season 2 whenever that may be. What are your thoughts? ConstructorRob18 (talk) 20:39, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, that would make sense. --Historyday01 (talk) 02:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

The summaries are still too long so not a good idea. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 02:56, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I thought someone cut down the summaries recently... I mean if they are too long, perhaps they should be trimmed again. --Historyday01 (talk) 03:15, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

History of LGBT representation in the show

I understand from the comment that some of the material from this section that I removed in my edit is missed. Can we talk about it here? Coming in as a new reader it felt like there was an enormous amount of detail that had been added recently day by day, tweet by tweet, as the situation unfolded, and that there could be value in simplifying the account so the central story doesn't get lost - for instance, is it still valuable to talk about hints and foreshadowing of lgbt inclusion when it was explicitly confirmed shortly after? And are all the reactions by animators, actors, other creators, relevant? Also the big paragraph about a single cartoon brew story and whether it was fair to what the creator said, which seems to be really in the weeds. No problem with material going back - and some might belong in a fine grained lgbt in cartoons history as proposed - but maybe we can work on shaping this section? I don't feel that it's totally worthless with some of the detail removed, but rather has the potential to be more impactful. BrightVamp (talk) 03:53, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

no its a good show 158.222.90.19 (talk) 20:56, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

A couple of article sections that could be good models are Steven_Universe#Gender_and_sexuality and The_Legend_of_Korra#Gender,_race_and_sexual_orientation BrightVamp (talk) 04:09, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Sigh. I understand what you mean by the amount of detail, but I think "simplifying the account so the central story doesn't get lost" would weaken the section as a whole. The compromise here is to just to move it off to the History of LGBTQ characters in animation: 2020s page, as I have done. I see every part of the story, including the "big paragraph about a single cartoon brew story" as you call it, to be important. So, any further work on the section should be done on the History of LGBTQ characters in animation: 2020s page, not on this page for The Owl House. That is why I stand by my view that it is "totally worthless with some of the detail removed." I would say that the show itself has "the potential to be more impactful." Your changes won't make the Wikipedia page a beacon that people will flock to for answers. You can cite the Steven_Universe#Gender_and_sexuality and The_Legend_of_Korra#Gender,_race_and_sexual_orientation pages, as you have done, but the Legend of Korra section is relatively weak, while the one for Steven Universe is a little better. Neither is a good example for the content which has been removed and moved to the history page. Historyday01 (talk) 13:32, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

That seems like a reasonable compromise, to get into the granular detail about the history of the announcement on a separate page. The edit, however, omits the announcement itself, which is highly relevant to this section: that the creator explicitly confirmed the characters to be LGBT+ (not just "subtext and hints"). So I have added that quote and citation back, and also made text changes for redundancy. I also added a citation for them being the first occurrences of a regular LGBT+ animated character (not just female) in a Disney show. BrightVamp (talk) 23:14, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Episode List Cleanup

For the past month, the "Episodes" section has had maintenance notification indicating that the episode descriptions needed cleanup. At this point, I think the issues mentioned in the notification have been fixed. None of the episode descriptions go over 200 words now, and none of them have actors'/actress' names in them anymore. However, I don't want to just declare all issues fixed & remove the maintenance template without first making sure other editors agree that the episode descriptions have been adequately cleaned up. Jamie Eilat (talk) 04:30, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

I would have to agree with you. The episodes descriptions seem fine with me, and I think the notice should be removed. Historyday01 (talk) 05:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Episode table and end of disruptive edits

Is highlighting the overall number of the episodes from the table episodes table so unnecessary? I saw this in several articles and also from the Wikipedia language I came. Isn't there a way to make these things automatic?In fact, even if something that is announced In the table is something from the future, like the third season cell, it should be hidden using "<!- - and --!> Because this can be frustrating for those who edited the part in question. Ninve67 (talk)

Highlighting the overall number of episodes from the episode list has to be added manually. Some examples of the table, I think you arr referring to, in shows with more than two seasons, includes Mira, Royal Detective, Steven Universe, and List of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, and Victor and Valentino. I have to agree with the edits by @User:BaldiBasicsFan. All we know about the upcoming season are those five episode titles noted by Disney TVA and that the season will be divided in half into 1A and 1B, and that there will be a Season 3 (which Terrace confirmed as the final one of the series), but it is anyone's guess when it will premiere. She also has said there will be three "44-minute specials" too. --Historyday01 (talk) 23:36, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

So is manual highlighting allowed or not? And I would also find it better to just hide the third season cell than remove it, it can throw all the work of a user in the trash. especially in if someone make large editions. This could be my last edit, he wants to block me! Ninve67 (talk) 23:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@User:Ninve67, I'm not an admin, it is just the admin blocking you. Also, how delightful that you reverted my warnings about your behavior, which is you making an edit war. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 23:48, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Good point BaldiBasicsFan. Yeah, and I'm not an admin either. It does look like an edit war to me, as well. Personally, I don't think enough is known about a third season at this point to add it. All we know is that it will happen, but that's it. We don't even know the date it will premiere, which will probably be, by my guess, sometime in 2022 (assuming that season 2B premieres in the fall of this year). Historyday01 (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I was just wondering if you agree with manual highlighting of tables. And that I don't think it's right to erase the cell of the third season, instead of that, it could just be hidden, You know, not to throw a user's work in the trash if he ever makes a big edit. How is my answer above.Ninve67 (talk) 23:55, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

The cell can be added if there was a third season premiering, but you have to wait until we get some episodes confirmed for it. And no, we don't agree with your highlighting, it makes the list look unpleasant in the eyes, and is an inappropriate use of MOS:BOLD. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 00:01, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Maybe you can speak for yourself, since I’m waiting for his answer, who said he "agrees" as he said "Highlighting the overall number of episodes from the episode list has to be added manually. Some examples of the table, I think you arr referring to, in shows with more than two seasons, includes Mira, Royal Detective, Steven Universe, and List of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, and Victor and Valentino." In my opinion it even makes the table more beautiful and is well used here and my mother language Wikipedia articles. An example of when highlighting is used here automatically is in List of episodes of Pokemon articles. The Wikipedia page you cited does not say that all the time highlighted text is not welcome. Anyway, I don't know if I will be blocked in all linguages but i give up. Ninve67 (talk) 00:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Any use of hidden text, including use of highlighting, has to follow the rules set out in WP:HIDDEN and MOS:BOLD. I agree with BaldiBasicsFan on this. Historyday01 (talk) 02:52, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@User:Ninve67, please read WP:OTHER. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 22:29, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

BaldiBasicsFan is right. Historyday01 (talk) 01:49, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Can someone please explain why SpoilerTv is considered an unreliable source when the ratings are provided by Nielsen? If SpoilerTV isn't as accurate because it uses Nielsen ratings, so was ShowBuzzDaily with their non-disclosed source. thetvratingsguide also provides ratings exclusively for the owl house which has similar numbers as SpoilerTv (http://www.thetvratingsguide.com/2021/06/the-owl-house-season-2-ratings.html) --CocoBrei835 (talk) 06:00, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Episodes page

Now I know we discuss it a few times for the split of episodes and decide on doing it when it will get to 50 episodes but now the the announcement it will end with series 3 it will be the total episode count to 43 less then the 50 episodes so the question is will we keep it all together or do a split of episodes Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 21:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I think it might be justified to do a split then, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say. --Historyday01 (talk) 23:13, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Some thoughts I have after I finished the translation from this page

Like what I did to Adventure Time, I recently did a translation from this article to the correspondent Chinese article, 奇幻貓頭鷹小屋, and I think I need to give some feedbacks.

There are some sentences that is added but is not mentioned in the original source:

• "... while contending with the further plot of Emperor Belos."
• "Terrace is the fourth woman to create a series for Disney Television Animation, after Pepper Ann with Sue Rose, Doc McStuffins with Chris Nee, and Star vs. the Forces of Evil with Daron Nefcy."
  • For this one, there is no reference to support this, and in Disney Fandom Wiki, Terrace is actually the six woman to run a Disney show.
• "In the episode, Eda Clawthorne is shown to have feelings for Raine which makes her queer. The subsequent episode, "Knock, Knock, Knockin' on Hooty's Door", reveals that Eda and Raine were formerly dating, before breaking up. The episode also has Luz and Amity asking each other out, officially becoming a couple."
  • No reference of this one either - violating "No original research" from the Term of Use of Wikipedia.

Also, the "short summary" of each episodes are too long, and so I didn't translate them at all, and it has not refs either.

In addition, I shuffled and merges some of the sections like below, and I guess this can be the new form if I can translate actually it back:

Before	After
Premise Characters Production Development Writing Animation Music Marketing Broadcast Reception Critical reception LGBTQ+ representation Accolades Episodes Series overview Season 1 (2020) Season 2 (2021) Shorts Look Hooo's Talking Owl Pellets In other media Light novel adaptation Notes References External links	Premise Characters Production Background Development Broadcast Episodes Series overview Season 1 (2020) Season 2 (2021) Shorts Reception Critical reception LGBTQ+ representation Accolades In other media Notes References External links

And last but not least, is it really that necessary to add when it aired in other countries? And was it the same channel in Hungary and Czech? The source seems to be merely a Hungarian one. - George6VI (talk) 16:44, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

I think the "In the episode, Eda Clawthorne is shown to have feelings for Raine which makes her queer. The subsequent episode, "Knock, Knock, Knockin' on Hooty's Door", reveals that Eda and Raine were formerly dating, before breaking up. The episode also has Luz and Amity asking each other out, officially becoming a couple" section is just extrapolation from fan interpretations, from what I can gather, so I wouldn't mind it being removed. I imagine the last line will be mentioned in some articles in the upcoming week, so something can be added back in. I don't think short summaries of episodes need references, but sure, they could be shorter. And, I think it can help to mention it aired in other countries, provided that there are sources to show it aired in said countries. That consolidation of sources makes sense. Historyday01 (talk) 17:17, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

What if I remove all episode summaries? I don't it's necessary and TOH Wiki is a better place for it, also it's easier to maintain. - George6VI (talk) 04:30, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it makes sense to at least have some episode summaries, even if they are short, like the length of those on the List of Spirit Riding Free episodes page for instance (I mention this page as just one example of short episode summaries)... It is just strange to have a listing of episodes but not have any summaries of what happens with each episode. And I'd think that the TOH wiki probably already has such episode summaries, well of most of the episodes, by this point, but I could be wrong about that.Historyday01 (talk) 14:04, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Definitely don't remove all the episode summaries. Episode lists here are generally supposed to have episode summaries when possible. Alphius (talk) 07:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

That was my thought too... Removing the episode summaries would be a bad idea. Historyday01 (talk) 13:30, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 5 August 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Speedily reverted the undiscussed move. Paintspot Infez (talk) 13:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

---

The Owl House (TV series) → The Owl House – The page shouldn't have been moved without a discussion, and I would have argued against moving it if there had been one. It seems to be clearly the primary topic based on every common metric in WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, and a hatnote was fine per WP:ONEOTHER; no disambiguation page is necessary. Alphius (talk) 07:13, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Having just the hatnote which links to the museum page was fine, that is. Alphius (talk) 07:40, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree, it was moved without any sort of discussion, which kinda annoys me too, especially since it broke a LOT of links to the show on here. Why that user wanted to it makes no sense to me whatsoever. I support the move back to "The Owl House" name. --Historyday01 (talk) 13:30, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Reverting the undiscussed move that caused this mess, per WP:BRD. @MrBlueBirdLover6: — You shouldn't have boldly moved such a widely visible page without discussing it first. Secondly, if you looked at the pageviews, you would have realized that this page is 100% the OBVIOUS primary topic over the museum (no question about it whatsoever), and blows-it-out-of-the-water COMPLETELY when it comes to pageviews. The series literally gets 99.2 PERCENT of pageviews, fam. Paintspot Infez (talk) 13:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Any images from Wikimedia Commons?

I think it should be good to add more images to this article, and I know it's quite strict to add non-free images to any given article in Wikipedia, but I can't find one in Wikimedia Commons. So I wonder, what kind of image can be found there? Crew members, cosplay, photo of promos or what? (These are some I can come up so far) - George6VI (talk) 02:40, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I'm not finding anything like that on there as of yet, but perhaps it can be added on there.--Historyday01 (talk) 03:22, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Added an image of Terrace in the Background section. —Collin^{t c} 16:54, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Great! The more images the better. --Historyday01 (talk) 17:31, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I saw that Cometa has an image too, which is amazing! I added a non-free image of the specific scene that Dana commented ([1]), at the LGBTQ+ representation. I hope that is allowed for fair use. - George6VI (talk) 15:08, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Characters edit war

@Moviemaker204, BaldiBasicsFan, Enda McNabola, Lutesque, MrBlueBirdLover6, and Tehr: what is going on with the Characters section? All of you have made either additions or removals to that section, and it's been back and forth for days. Can someone help me understand why they feel their version is best? Firefangledfeathers (talk) 17:34, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

I stopped adding stuff after people kept removing it. I'm trying to add the actors/main characters. But some people have been removing it. People deserve to know who the main characters are. Willow, Gus, and Amity have bigger roles in season 2 probing they're main characters Moviemaker204 (talk) 18:24, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

The billing and overall marketing of the series treats Robles, Malick, and Hirsch as the three main voices of the show, therefore their characters are the main ones. I don't give two figs if anyone thinks Amity and the rest are in the same position, until the other voice actors start getting the same treatment, it should remain limited to only those three.Lutesque (talk) 19:38, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I am not involved in the edit war, but I give a reference: the table of main characters and the respective voice cast in the Chinese article. I found references for the three main characters, as well as Willow, Gus, and Amity. I included the latter three, and it is mainly because that the Taiwanese dub crew have an official post in Facebook, about who voiced which specific character(s). And in this case, in Taiwan, Gus and Amity share a same voice actor, so I thought, why not. But that's it, it's only because there is an official announcement of the dub cast, which is pretty rare in Taiwan. - George6VI (talk) 12:29, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you to everyone for responding above. I don't know of any policy or guideline that insists on only the main characters being listed in the characters section. MOS:TVCAST suggests

Characters list: In a section labeled "Characters" or "List of characters", indicate noteworthy characters, including the name of their portrayer, followed by a brief description of the character.

Firefangledfeathers (talk) 01:58, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

"奇幻貓頭鷹小屋" becomes a Good Article

I am glad to say that, thanks to the content of this article, I was able to translate it to Chinese, and now, that article becomes a Good article! - George6VI (talk) 01:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Connections to Amphibia

So apparently Matt Braly went on twitch and stated that Amphibia and the Boiling Isles were connected.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1030926497

(161.29.246.205 (talk) 10:59, 17 November 2021 (UTC))

The Twitch link is inactive, but after running it through the wayback machine, I can tell that it's the True Colors pre-show livestream. This was a case where, while answering a slew of chat questions, someone asked if Amphibia & the Boiling Isle were connected, to which Braly briefly responded "I don't see why not". I wouldn't exactly call that a confirmation, as much as a lack of denial. – Jamie Eilat (talk) 19:44, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Maybe. But Matt Braly has also said before that a crossover between the two shows could be possible assuming fans of both series would want it enough. I don't know what Dana Terrance's opinions on the matter are, though given how supportive the two have been of each other's shows I can't imagine she would refuse if given the opportunity.

(161.29.246.205 (talk) 10:46, 18 November 2021 (UTC))

Pilot (2017)

Status: Unaired, this episode is most likely a early version of the first episode of season 1. the pilot had many differences from the final version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C6:0:AB50:593C:20B8:FC1B:B53D (talk) 15:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Reddit references

This page includes several links to Reddit. The guidelines discourage linking to Reddit in general although there are some exceptions WP:RSPREDDIT. I tried to cleanup the reference a bit but a robot thought I was adding links to Reddit when I was only trying to improve what was already there.

If there is a local consensus to use Reddit links there should be some discussion to make that clear, but I don't see any. Perhaps now that the series is in its second season Reddit could be replaced with better sources? -- 109.76.137.229 (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

I've removed some unnecessary Reddit references, I don't yet know if the crazy robot will continue edit warring and try to put them back in again or not. There is no need to reference Reddit to say the animators were able to work remotely during the pandemic, there is already a Deadline.com reference for that. There is no need to reference Reddit to confirm that the characters are LGBTQ+, there's a Variety article[2] for that (which was previously a reference to a reprint of the article at NBC News). -- 109.76.137.229 (talk) 01:14, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

There is another Reddit reference named "SeriesTone" and I wasn't able to find an easy and full replacement but I would point to the Newsweek article already referenced where Terrace says "I am always trying to push them to go a little bit darker and weirder because I find that stuff fun."[3] -- 109.76.137.229 (talk) 01:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

CBR.com is not a great source either but it is already included in the article and might be an adequate replacement for the "SeriesTone" Reddit reference. It says " According to Terrace, the season will have a "darker" tone close to the original vision she had when she first created the series."[4] -- 109.76.137.229 (talk)

An editor restored the Reddit references insisting that the Variety reference was not enough.[5] The Variety article[6] may not be as succinct but it says the same thing in a more verbose way: "First Bisexual Lead Character" (Luz) and that the show depicts "a relationship between Luz and the recurring female character Amity" and "Series creator Dana Terrace substantiated viewers’ theories on Twitter that this was indeed a portrayal of an LGBTQ relationship". This seems more than enough to me.
If other editors believe it is not enough I welcome their suggestions on how to replace the Reddit references with something better, so as not to bring down the wrath of our robotic overlords. -- 109.76.137.229 (talk) 02:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

109.76.137.229, I did remove a couple of the Reddit references and updated it a bit. Yeah those bots can be a pain in the ass... I would say the Variety, Newsweek, and CBR articles you suggested are fine. The Reddit references were to a AMA where Terrace herself confirmed Luz as bi and Amity as lesbian. At the time, it was added (I believe I was the one who added it), it seemed fine, as it was the creator saying this, and it was an AMA, not just some random Reddit comment, and there weren't any articles on the subject at the time. But, sure, there shouldn't be as many links to Reddit. I would even posit that the number of sources linking to Twitter should be reduced (currently it is used as a source 13 times), but sometimes that information has not been put into anyone's articles, and as such, it can't be found anywhere else, but the tweet. I'm not sure if that's the case for those tweets... or not. Currently, there is now only ONE source which uses Reddit (other than those which I added Reddit as somewhere people could go for original comments by Terrace, and its this line:

The animators also changed real-life elements to further distinguish the Boiling Isles from Earth, such as making the ocean purple.

References

It is possible this information is somewhere else, but when I typed the quote into Google, nothing came up, meaning that no article uses that exact quote. I tried to make some other changes to other sources as well, but I don't have all the time in the world to work on this right now... As such, feel free to keep plugging away and revising the article, fellow concerned editor! Historyday01 (talk) 04:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for helping to cleanup the article. I understand the temptation to use the sources that happened to be available at the time, I've been there, but it should be possible to gradually replace source like Reddit and Twitter. (This seems like the kind of show that might have an art book or behind the scenes book that would be full of all the kinds of answers an encyclopedia article would need but maybe something like that has not been published yet?)

I did try, I searched for "ocean purple" and Boiling Isles too, but didn't find an exact match. It might be more interesting to mention other production or design details that can be reliably sourced instead or to explain that they (the inhabitants of the Boiling Isles) live on the massive corpse of a long dead Titan[7], which sounds interesting to me (as someone who doesn't subscribe to Disney and has not seen this show). -- 109.76.145.225 (talk) 04:36, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

To my knowledge, an art book or behind the scenes book hasn't been published as a person who follows the show. Maybe someday in the future that will happen but it hasn't yet. I mean it took a while for the Steven Universe art books to be published so perhaps it is the same with The Owl House. But, I can agree that it should be possible to replace sources like Reddit and Twitter, but as I said, sometimes reviewers don't even not those tweets. I wouldn't mind adding in a little more from that interview of Ricky Cometa. Historyday01 (talk) 15:09, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Weird headline?

Why on the headline of this article says "American in Israeli animated TV series"? Lk.KEVIN (talk) 20:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Strange, that's how it was described on Wikidata for some reason. As far as I can tell, this isn't an Israeli coproduction so I've updated it. Thanks for pointing this out Lk.KEVIN. —⁠Collin^{t c} 20:28, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Eda being queer

In the LGBTQ+ rep part, it says "Eda Clawthorne is shown to have feelings for Raine, confirming Eda to be queer." However, I don't think attraction to non-binary people inherently means one is queer. Labels are kind of flexible and can differ from person to person, but I think it's generally agreed that you can be straight and like non-binary people. Maybe it can be changed to "Eda Clawthorne is shown to have feelings for Raine, implying Eda might be queer." STIK2009 (talk) 23:23, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

That's a fair point. I changed it to "In the episode, Eda Clawthorne is shown to have feelings for Raine," so it gets rid of the whole last part of the sentence as ti remove any possible confusion. I think that could work. --Historyday01 (talk) 00:35, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

The Three Specials, aka Season 3

How are the colors of each season determined? I am adding season 3 (aka the 3 specials) on the Episode section. I know details have not been announced, but I am adding it, just in case. PuppyCatBree (talk) 03:42, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't think I's such a great idea to do that now. As you recognize, we have no details yet (no titles, dates, or even production codes), so any Season 3 episode list would just be a header with 3 practically empty entries. There is no information you could put in the Episodes section for Season 3 that isn't already given by the statement in the Lead & Broadcast sections that "On May 17, 2021, the series was renewed for a third season, which will consist of three 44-minute specials".

In short, we should wait until we have new information worth putting in an episode list to add Season 3 to the Episodes section. Jamie Eilat (talk) 06:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi I think I broke thingss

Sorry I was just doing your typical encyclopedia building when, I reverted a non-vandal edit. So many self reverts later I am just going to keep one eye on the page, and my hands off the keyboard. I would help to clean things up, but I am not actually sure what is desirable. So I'll leave the mess to you. Sorry. Pabsoluterince (talk) 06:40, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

The episode list page split

So, the Episodes section just got split off into its own article, but it seems as though there was no discussion/decision on whether to do so beforehand. This seems to have been something done fairly spontaneously. Now, I know from the above discussions that the question of if/when to split off the episode section has been a recurrent one, so I feel it would be good to get a sense of how the other major editors feel about the split that just suddenly occurred. I mean, if we're all cool with it, then we're all cool with it, but if anyone protests then here is the place to speak up. — Jamie Eilat (talk) 09:14, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I edit the Chinese article, which I translated from this English one. I prefer the split to be done when the names of Season 3 episodes are revealed, but if the split remains anyway, I'm fine with that, but I don't want to update the other article so soon. After all, I am pretty much the only one who did its updates. --George6VI (talk) 10:44, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm against splitting it, because there are only going to be two and a half seasons, which is not enough to justify splitting it into another article. - Jasonbres (talk) 23:56, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I have to agree with George 6VI on this one. I don't mind the current split, as it seems sizable enough to be its own article. I mean, there are articles like List of Mira, Royal Detective episodes (which admittedly is longer at this point), so I tentatively think this split is fine. From the looks of it, it appears that 61.2.1.65 did the episode split just today. I understand what you are saying, Jasonbres, but I would say that with the amount of the content that would compromise the Episodes section for two and half seasons would be fine as its own article. Historyday01 (talk) 01:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I merged it back to the original article. There was not enough episodes to have the article split. It needs to be 50 or more. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 21:25, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

A wise choice. Prosesize says that readable prose not in the episode summaries is 1704 B (286 words), and with episode summaries of approximately 200 words each which create "an estimated 1kB of readable prose," that adds up to 33 kB for the currently aired episodes, plus 4 kB for the five Owl Pellets episodes. That comes to a total of 37 kB for readable prose. Per MOS:TVSPLIT, "...a split should occur when an article reaches 50kB to 60kB of readable prose...Considering episode summaries alone, it would take between 50 and 60 episodes to warrant separating those summaries off the main page to an List of Episodes page. However, additional content usually exists on a series parent article, so it is recommended that this guide be applied after determining the size of readable prose for the rest of the article." So, although List of Amphibia episodes was cited by one of the IP users, that has many more than The Owl House. And calculations from prosesize show the List of Amphibia episodes page (which currently lists 53 episodes) to have over 53 kB, probably even 60 kB if you count the animated shorts. So, I would say that until the amount of prose for the List of The Owl House episodes reaches 50 kB, which it probably wouldn't even reach by the end of its season 2 run (as it would be an estimated 44 kB by that point), so it couldn't be split off at that point anyway. That's just looking at the rules, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say and if you all think it should be split off. I will add that although article splits usually happen when something is 50-60 episodes, it can happen sooner if it reaches the threshold of 50kB of readable prose, and that if an article reaches "40kB of readable prose, not factoring in the episode table," then it would "most likely require splitting as the main page is sufficiently large to justify the split." The current article for The Owl House is only 19 kB of readable prose, so wouldn't fall under that requirement. Historyday01 (talk) 00:12, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Not even anime are safe from this issue unfortunately. Spy × Family and Delicious Party Pretty Cure both have separate episode lists, but they only have a lot less than 50 because they are brand new shows. Seriously? Why is that? BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 00:23, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

It is strange because taking into account what Jamie says below, the Spy x Family page was only 7.041 kB of readable prose on March 7, 2022 (the edit before the link to the Spy x Family page was added), and the episodes were never added to the page. That page was far under the 50-60 kB requirement for a page split. So, it should probably be merged back into the Spy x Family page. As for the Delicious Party Pretty Cure page, it was only 3.889 kB of readable prose, again below the requirement for a page split, in the edit before the episode list for that page was created. I would argue that in those cases, the episodes should be merged back onto their appropriate pages. Historyday01 (talk) 14:04, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, an article split would be completely warranted right now by the rules of MOS:TVSPLIT. Now, Historyday01 mentions that "the current article for The Owl House is only 19 kB of readable prose". However, something to realize is that prosesize isn't capable of including episode summaries in its tally of readable prose, due to them technically being housed in an episode table. This is directly noted in TVSPLIT's example for defining readable prose: "For example, an article with readable prose listed at 15kB, that has an episode list of 15 episodes, would be at approximately 30kB of readable prose." (The phrase "listed at" is referring to the figures listed by prosesize in its readout") So in order to accurately assess the readable prose size of the Owl House page, we need to add the 19kB of readable prose listed by prosesize to the 37kB that make up the episode summaries. 19kB + 37kB = 56kB. 56kB sets us directly within the 50kB to 60kB range that warrants a page split. (That number would jump to 66kB with the extra 10 episodes of seasons 2 & 3.) And it is clear from the wording of MOS:TVSPLIT that the 50kB – 60kB threshold is referring to prose size the full series article, not just the readable prose of the episode summaries in isolation. — Jamie Eilat (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jamie Eilat That is a fair point there In terms of the split. Is it a good idea to split it now, though, or shoukd we wait until Season 2 has ended? Historyday01 (talk) 03:24, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I think it may be better to do it now rather than later. The prose size is already 56kB, and waiting for the end of season 2 will only let it go up to 63, above MOS:TVSPLIT's 60kB threshold. And since there are no intervening edits, we could split it now with only 2 simple revert edits. Plus, if Amphibia could split off their episodes section while season 3 was already airing, then there's no reason we should wait. — Jamie Eilat (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

That's a fair point. The current split of the page would definitely fall under the rules. In my earlier comment, I was only counting the size of the page AFTER the split, not the size of the page BEFORE the split. I probably should have done the latter rather than the former. So, I'd support a separate episode page in that case. Historyday01 (talk) 13:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Censorship

Something about Disney censoring or removing scenes in some countries could be added. It could alternatively be in the Criticism of the Walt Disney Company article.

Pneen (talk) 13:37, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

I think the LGBTQ+ representation section should be its own article

I think it would be a good idea to split the "LGBTQ+ representation" section into its own page. There is much to discuss regarding how the show handles its LGBT representation beyond one small section, both as a show on its own terms, and in context to both Disney and children's animation in general. I think there should be an article discussing various aspects of the show, from its handling of Luz and Amity's character arcs, to Raine's nonbinary identity, to LGBT acceptance in the Boiling Isles. The article should ideally be titled something like "LGBT representation in The Owl House". All of the links already used in the main article can apply to this new article I am suggesting. ShinjiGrille58 (talk) 22:45, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Disney and LGBT representation in animation and LGBT representation in children's television already have the content, and having a whole article on that might set a bad precedent as other shows wouldn't be able to live up to having articles just on LGBTQ representation. Historyday01 (talk) 03:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)