Talk:The Owtsiders

Wikipedia: Importance states the following:

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"An article is "important" enough to be included in Wikipedia if any one of the following is true: There is evidence that a reasonable number of people are, were or might be concurrently interested in the subject (eg. it is at least well-known in a community). It is an expansion (longer than a stub) upon an established subject. Discussion on the article's talk page establishes its importance. If an article is "important" according to the above then there's no reason to delete it on the basis of it being: of insufficient importance, fame or relevance, or currently small or a stub, or obscure. (Detailed obscure topics hurt no-one because it's hard to find them by accident, and Wikipedia isn't paper.)"

The Owtsiders is the premier co-ed a cappella group on the Ohio Wesleyan University campus. Not only does the group establish its own importance through extensive touring, it also promotes its alma mater and draws in a hefty prospective student population. Hence, a reasonable number of people (the OWU community and beyond) are interested in the subject. Under the Wikipedia: Importance policy, which still isn't an official policy, the page should not be deleted, even if it might be, as contested, of "insufficient importance."

Regarding Wikipedia: What Wikipedia Is Not, this page and its secondary links (album titles) are objective and non-promotional in nature. They are educational entries, and within Wikipedia's guidelines.

• Wikipedia: Importance is a proposed policy and therefore does not even have the status of persuasive authority. Indrian 20:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• User:Fram proposed the deletion of the article, citing Wikipedia: Importance as basis for judgement. Why try to delete the page under a "proposed" policy that doesn't have persuasive authority? Especially when the group has been proven notable beyond a collegiate community. -Hoffeld 03:54 EST, 25 June 2006

No, Hoffeld, I did not cite Wikipedia: Importance, I proposed deletion because the band is non notable. See Wikipedia:Notability (music) for more details. You can disagree with this, of course, and cite the reasons at the deletion page of this article (the AfD was started by another user, so I'm obviously not the only one to think that the grop is no notable according to Wikipedia guidelines). Fram 09:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• • Brad, I hardly think the Owtsiders have been proven notasble outside of Ohio Wesleyan. I think it is debateable how notable they are within Ohio Wesleyan. Indrian 14:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Indrian

Hi Hoffeld,

It doesn't surprise me that Indrian is engaging in something like this. Not too long ago, she was walking a think line between removing lines in the OWU's entry that were part of OWU's mission of "open doors" and according to others displaying homophobic attitudes. That user very likely might not have even gone to Ohio Wesleyan to be knowledgable about the liberal arts college. Hoffeld, I would suggest merging the information into a separate page called List of Ohio Wesleyan University Student Groups. You can post the extensive information that you created there. It would be sad to see your effort go to waste, if the group is notable. Faria 02:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

• Sigh, I know I should not rise to the bait and respond to this post, but I am going to anyway and unlike you, Faria I will not violate WP:CIVIL and WP:No personal attacks in my response. First, I am a man not a woman (though I realize that you had no way of knowing this and take no offense). Second, if you will look at the edit history of this page I was not the one who prodded it, Fram did, so I am not sure what I am supposed to be engaging in. I did nominate it for AfD, where the current consensus is to merge, so I am hardly going rogue and trying to eliminate this page against the will of the community. Third, I do not believe anyone has ever taken seriously your accusations of homophobia, which I have systematically refuted on other pages and need not address here, and they amount to a personal attack on my person that is revolting for its implications of bigotry, so I would kindly ask that you stop making those baseless accusations. Fourth, I have no objection to the list you propose as a subpage of the Ohio Wesleyan article and would certainly not oppose it. Fifth, I would not put myself out to be knowledgeable about Ohio Wesleyan if I had not attended that insitution. Class of 2004 in History, not that it is any of your business. Two years living in Welch, two more in Smith West, four years working at the Historian, Choir and Opera Theatre, voice lessons with Mr. Nims and Mr. Hiester, classes with Flamm, Spall, Chen, Murchland, Cook, Belloq, Fete, Kearns, Kay, Esler, etc. Many a meal at Buns on the weekends to avoid eating the godawful brunch at Smith Dining Hall (at least until it burned down and after it was rebuilt), and quite a few trips to Rocky's for gelato after it opened. Indrian 03:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)