Talk:The Paul Green School of Rock Music/Archives/ 1
Latest comment: 13 years ago by Vegaswikian in topic Requested move
 | This is an archive of past discussions about The Paul Green School of Rock Music. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Removing tagged issues
new citations have been added from credible sources - The New York Times and NPR.
how do the tags get removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenixrocks (talk • contribs) 17:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
- One removes them when it is appropriate. In this case, I've changed the "unreferenced" tag to a "refimprove" tag, because there are still a great many unsupported claims made in the article. ⌘macwhiz (talk) 15:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
- I think the weasel words prod can be removed. It seems fairly balanced and descriptive now. K8 fan (talk) 07:11, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Changed re-direct for The School of Rock
The Paul Green School of Rock Music was founded in 1996, and has had the domain schoolofrock.com since 2002. The 2003 movie was reportedly "inspired" by Paul Green's school. Since then, Paul Green left the school and it has become a very successful franchise operation with 72 schools in 26 states in the US and Mexico doing business as "The School of Rock". I believe the article School of Rock should be renamed to School of Rock (film) and the business should be The School of Rock and the page School of Rock should point to a disambiguation page that points to the articles for the movie and school. K8 fan (talk) 04:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:15, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
– The Paul Green School of Rock Music was founded in 1998, and has had the domain schoolofrock.com since 2002, as seen in the Internet Archive. The 2003 movie was reportedly "inspired" by Paul Green's school. Since then, Paul Green left the school and it has become a very successful franchise operation with 72 schools in 26 states in the US and Mexico doing business as "The School of Rock" serving over 7000 students. I believe the article School of Rock should be renamed to School of Rock (film) and the business should be The School of Rock and the page School of Rock should point to a disambiguation page that points to the articles for the movie and school. K8 fan (talk) 05:08, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. The movie remains the primary topic and a hatnote there already directs users seeking the school to the correct article. Anyway, school of rock (lowercase r) is already a disambiguation page. There is no need for a second one. — AjaxSmack 15:50, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Actually that dab page was created out of a redirect just yesterday and I'm not so sure it's necessary if there's a hatnote to the school on this article. Station1 (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Support.
- The music education program existed before the Jack Black film. According to this New York Times article from 2003, VH1 shot footage at the original Philadelphia School in 2002 (The Guardian article has 2000) for 4 days for a proposed reality TV series. They then stopped returning phone calls and announced plans for the movie.
- The Paul Green School of Rock Music had the domain schoolofrock.com since 2001. The earliest version archived in the Internet Archive is May 24, 2002, but it was registered before that.
- There was an article in Spin, written by James Lha of Smashing Pumpkins from May 2002 that is about the Philadelphia School that doesn't mention the Jack Black film.
- The executives in charge of the School of Rock now must have done due diligence to ensure that they would run no risk of a lawsuit from Paramount over ownership of the name "School of Rock" or risk losing the domain "schoolofrock.com". There is no mention of the Jack Black movie on their site.
- There is one movie. There are 72 School of Rock franchises. K8 fan (talk) 18:31, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- All of that may be true, but I'm not clear on what any of it has to do with our article titling guidelines. Powers T 23:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Because the entity formerly called the "Paul Green School of Rock Music" is know known as the "School of Rock". The article is mis-named. Also, they are only going to get bigger. I just added a link to a press release where they intend to have 300 franchise operations in the US and Mexico. There is the distinct possibility that this School of Rock may eventually have greater revenue than the Paramount film. And, again, it has primacy - Paul Green owned the domain schoolofrock.com and the school was referred to in national media as the "School of Rock" long before the film was made. I may be mistaken, but isn't it general WP practice that a common phrase used as a film or album title should have (film) or (album) appended to it as the article title to avoid confusion? I'm sure more people are familiar with Sara Lee, the maker of desserts, than Sara Lee, the bass player of Gang of Four. But neither gets "Sara Lee" which goes to a disambiguation page. K8 fan (talk) 23:39, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- We don't have any hard-and-fast rules, everything has to be evaluated on its own merits. Regardless of how much revenue the school takes in, if most readers searching for the phrase "School of Rock" are looking for the film, then we should probably keep the film at that title. Powers T 23:53, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Because the entity formerly called the "Paul Green School of Rock Music" is know known as the "School of Rock". The article is mis-named. Also, they are only going to get bigger. I just added a link to a press release where they intend to have 300 franchise operations in the US and Mexico. There is the distinct possibility that this School of Rock may eventually have greater revenue than the Paramount film. And, again, it has primacy - Paul Green owned the domain schoolofrock.com and the school was referred to in national media as the "School of Rock" long before the film was made. I may be mistaken, but isn't it general WP practice that a common phrase used as a film or album title should have (film) or (album) appended to it as the article title to avoid confusion? I'm sure more people are familiar with Sara Lee, the maker of desserts, than Sara Lee, the bass player of Gang of Four. But neither gets "Sara Lee" which goes to a disambiguation page. K8 fan (talk) 23:39, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- All of that may be true, but I'm not clear on what any of it has to do with our article titling guidelines. Powers T 23:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. The film remains the primary topic. Jenks24 (talk) 00:04, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- I should point out that on the IMDB page for the film it is listed as The School of Rock. Why is the article School of Rock instead of The School of Rock? It should be changed for that reason alone.K8 fan (talk) 00:41, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not IMDb. Check out these images of the movie poster and the soundtrack jacket for actual usage without the article. — AjaxSmack 03:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Support.I've been videotaping various School of Rock shows and I came here to get some info. I didn't want info about the movie, I wanted info about the School of Rock. That got me to reading all this. I don't understand what the problem is here. I see that the issue is to change "School of Rock" (referring to the Jack Black movie) to "School of Rock (film)" which seems reasonable. Also "The Paul Green School of Rock Music" should be changed to "The School of Rock" since that is what it's called, since Paul Green hasn't been a part of it for quite a while. It seems that in several, if not most cases when a film has the same title as something else, (film) is added to the end. I just checked, and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo goes to the book's page, while the movies are "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2009 film)" and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011 film)" so again, what's the problem with adding "(film)" to the end of the movie title? Xenussister (talk) 04:34, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- As I said above, if most readers looking for "School of Rock" are looking for the film, then that's what the film's article's title should be. There are many cases where we don't append (film) to the end of a title, like Bambi, The Hangover, It Happened One Night, and Singin' in the Rain. Powers T 11:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- But in cases where the movie is based on a book, the book usually has the definitive article. I'm sure more people have seen A Clockwork Orange or Gone With the Wind than read the books, but both point to the books rather than the (film). Even a huge film series that has earned over a billion dollars like The Lord of the Rings, the original gets the definitive. Your examples are all original works. In this case, the School existed before the film, and there is substantial evidence that the film was based on the School. K8 fan (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- You see that so often because it's primarily popular novels that get made into films. Anyway, Bambi is not an original work, contrary to your assertion. Other examples include The Godfather, Leaving Las Vegas, and Forrest Gump. Powers T 17:07, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- But in cases where the movie is based on a book, the book usually has the definitive article. I'm sure more people have seen A Clockwork Orange or Gone With the Wind than read the books, but both point to the books rather than the (film). Even a huge film series that has earned over a billion dollars like The Lord of the Rings, the original gets the definitive. Your examples are all original works. In this case, the School existed before the film, and there is substantial evidence that the film was based on the School. K8 fan (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- As I said above, if most readers looking for "School of Rock" are looking for the film, then that's what the film's article's title should be. There are many cases where we don't append (film) to the end of a title, like Bambi, The Hangover, It Happened One Night, and Singin' in the Rain. Powers T 11:21, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. The film got 67,859 pageviews last month compared to 699 for the school, and that proportion is consistent over time. The film is the overwhelming primary topic. Station1 (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- But this article really needs to be re-named. There is no Paul Green School of Rock Music anymore, and there hasn't been since 2010. The possibility exists that some people looking for information on the program have been visiting the page for the movie. Until this week it lacked any reference to the original school. Again, we have two things with the same name, and one of them existed before the other. The film will not be harmed by having (film) appended to it's name, while the article on the School really needs to have the name School of Rock, for search results at the very least. K8 fan (talk) 19:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- In that case the school's article could be renamed to School of Rock (school) or School of Rock (academic program) or School of Rock (education company) or anything similar. Station1 (talk) 19:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Any examples of redundantly named articles? School of Rock (film) matches WP convention. K8 fan (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- It would only match convention if it were not the primary topic. Convention is that primary topics get the plain title and other topics need to be disambiguated somehow. Station1 (talk) 20:50, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Any examples of redundantly named articles? School of Rock (film) matches WP convention. K8 fan (talk) 20:04, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- In that case the school's article could be renamed to School of Rock (school) or School of Rock (academic program) or School of Rock (education company) or anything similar. Station1 (talk) 19:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- Oppose. Nothing above suggests film is not dominant/primary topic. Handle disambig with hat note. Glrx (talk) 22:53, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.