Talk:The Queen of Ireland

Requested move 14 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. We have a pretty clear consensus that this is the primary topic of the term with "The" included as part of the proper name. However, there were good points on the fact that "Queen of Ireland", sans "The", should continue redirecting to Monarchy of Ireland, so the dab page will go to Queen of Ireland (disambiguation). Cúchullain ^t/c 16:51, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

---

• The Queen of Ireland (film) → The Queen of Ireland
• The Queen of Ireland → Queen of Ireland

– The 2015 film is the obvious primary topic, in terms of usage, of "The Queen of Ireland" with the definite article. With respect to long-term significance, no other topic has substantially greater enduring notability or educational value (the 1938 religious tract and 1960 radio play were only added to the authors' articles yesterday). Other uses refer to "Queen of Ireland" rather than "The Queen of Ireland". Our Lady of Knock is only infrequently referred to as "the [lowercase] Queen of Ireland", compared to "Our Lady, Queen of Ireland". Scolaire (talk) 11:30, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

• Agree Gob Lofa (talk) 12:37, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

• Agree Seems reasonable and uncontroversial. Murry1975 (talk) 13:35, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per WP:THE and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Dohn joe (talk) 14:21, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support: appears to be Primary Topic with "The". Needs an {{other uses}} hatnote added to the film article after move, to point to the dab page. PamD 14:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - I'm afraid that WP:THE doesn't give guidance to suggest that THE is sufficient disambiguation, that's a misreading of what WP:THE says, look at the examples given: Rite of Spring redirects to The Rite of Spring / The Journey to the West redirects to Journey to the West / Three Musketeers redirects to The Three Musketeers... so WP:THE only is guidance on the best one of THE/no-the, to use, not a case that THE and no-the are different subjects. User:PamD Gob Lofa and User:Murry1975. I'd ask you to click here Google Books "the Queen of Ireland" 40,800 hits how many of the 40,800 are referring to the 2015 documentary film? And in terms of WP:RECENT is the film in the long term more important than the Blessed Virgin Mary, Iseult, and all other uses combined? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:59, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

  You forgot quite a few other examples from WP:THE, such as Scream versus The Scream, Crown versus The Crown, Needles versus The Needles, Citadel versus The Citadel.... Please also see Wire versus The Wire, Economist versus The Economist.... We have separate topics for things with and without "The" all the time. Dohn joe (talk) 16:24, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

  Plus, if instead of your link, you click here (limiting the search to books published in the last 45 years), you get apparently less than 50, but in fact less than fifteen books, only seven of which actually contain the phrase "the queen of Ireland" (lowercase), and none of which give significant coverage of the topic "the queen of Ireland". Figures like 40,000 are easy to get with Google Books, but they often mean nothing. Scolaire (talk) 17:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Those examples wire, scream, crown, economist, citadel, are not things where there is one person defined by of country X.

The Queen of Sheba redirects to Queen of Sheba not The Queen of Sheba (film) how is this RM any different? In ictu oculi (talk)

• Support per nom, it's the obvious primary topic. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:23, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support Agree with all previous supporters' points. 'Queen of Ireland' is a more suitable name for the disambiguation page. 1-555-confide (talk) 18:10, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Snappy (talk) 17:22, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose, redirect The Queen of Ireland to Monarchy of Ireland, and rename the existing page to Queen of Ireland (disambiguation). Pretty obscure documentary against actual title used by many people for centuries (and of course usually used with a definite article, despite what our article is titled)? No contest. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:20, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.