Talk:The Red Badge of Courage

March 2030

Really? He's a future man! He rides a pterodactyl...straight into my heart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.206.217 (talk) 03:37, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Initial comments

This seems to be a book review (by the Wiki contributor?? - if not, then what about copyright?)Chingon86 10:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Added a publication history section. Hope more information is added about the book soon. This article really needs to be expanded. AppaAliApsa (talk) 06:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

questions and answers

I have to ask, is the film adaption accurate? I really don't want to trudge through the book, and the plot summary probably isn't detailed enough. --Guugolpl0x (talk) 18:01, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

why does henry enlist?what thoughts does he struggle with before the battle?do other soldiers share his thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.13.186.154 (talk) 19:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

WHAT IS THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.172.92.233 (talk) 04:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

When Henry meets a group of wounded soldiers, he wishes that he too had a "red badge of courage" (i.e. an injury)--92.228.244.101 (talk) 08:18, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the idea is that being courageous only kills you. Red being blood from acting with courage, and all the reward you get is death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.7.108 (talk) 01:17, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Its a wound

It's homework, that's what I think. :-)209.244.187.155 (talk) 13:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

What is this? This is pretty poorly made. Someone needs to redo this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.7.129 (talk) 01:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

By Jiminy/Be Jiminey

On page 19 the "tall private" says, "Be Jiminey!" This doesn't make much sense to me. First of all, it cant be Jiminy Cricket the Jesus Christ euphemism, as that saying was coined later in the 1930's. I type Jiminey in Google and it returns no results but a "Did you mean:" thing. Someone care to explain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.7.108 (talk) 04:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you are putting the cart before the horse.

The following came from a Google search of Jiminy:

"Jimminy/by Jiminy: a mild oath or exclamation. Originally from the

17th Century corruption of Gemini. The later variations Jimminy Christmas and Jiminy Cricket are variations of Jesu Domine, or Jesus Christ."

So, at best, Jiminy Circket came from the 17th century saying - at worse, it's totally unrelated.209.244.187.155 (talk) 13:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Similarities to Conrad?.

Cranes vivid literary picture painting is as vivid as Josef Conrads Sea Story style. In answer to 'what is the Red Badge of Courage'. It is the red stain on a bandage used for Battle wounds.Johnwrd (talk) 03:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Red Badge of Courage/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:46, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• Leads are my greatest weakness so I'm not very qualified to comment. It looks fine to me.

• Haha, mine as well. They're horrible. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Background

• Check use of logical punctuation - it seems inconsistent with punctuation both inside or outside of quotation marks. I now always put the punctuation outside of the quote marks to avoid inconsistency. But it's up to you.

• From what I can tell, the logical punctuation is correct per the sources used; if I quoted a full sentence, I included the ending period. Unless you noticed something obviously wrong? María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• looks like the knickerbocker sentence is a partial sentence but the quote marks are outside - but if it's the end of the sentence and the period is included, then I go either way with these, putting them outside or inside. I just get sick of explaining to people that the full stop belongs inside. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• I just checked, and it's the end of the sentence. It's taken a few years, but I've become entirely too anal about logical punctuation; I used to think it was such a pain, but now it seems like second nature to me! Blargh. María (habla conmigo) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• I think, according to MOS, words in quotations should never be linked.

• Really? Huh. Removed knickerbockers. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It's in WP:MOSQUOTE, but actually says avoid linking as much as possible, so it might be fine. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Knickerbocker is such a weird word, so I won't be surprised if someone bluelinks it again in the future. :p Thanks for the guideline tip! María (habla conmigo) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• It's not really important, but I'm curious about the friend. Was he an artist, hence the studio?

• He was an illustrator and painter; he did the lovely portrait of Crane in the lead. He also wrote a book of remembrances called My Stephen Crane. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks - yesterday I was looking at the portrait and was quite in impressed. Corwin K. Linson should be turned blue at some point. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• The chronology needs a bit of tightening - the text says he conceived the idea in the summer/ and had subsequent visits to the studio, which seems to suggest he didn't start writing until sometime later, but then explains that in fact he was writing as soon as June. That threw me a bit.

• I agree, and it's difficult to condense! Crane-writing timelines are difficult to pin down, especially since he was doing so much during this time -- newspaper articles (for money), poems, and the novel. Everything sort of bleeds together and overlaps. I'll try to make this clearer. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Your tweaks helped. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Did he write through the summer? When did he move to New York? Not terribly important, but made me curious.

• It's believed he began the novel in June 1893 and then worked on it intermittently until April 1894. I'll see if I can pinpoint the date he moved to NYC. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Publication history

• Did he do the editing from 55,000 words to 18,000 or was that done by someone else? Was it done for the serialization?

• The latter, and yes. I'll make this clearer. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Again, the tweaking helped. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• "entirety of the twelfth chapter" > maybe "all of the twelfth chapter"

• Fixed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Why was the Appleton employee worried about disapproval? In what sense?

• It's alleged that the employee might have thought the novel was distasteful, like a lot of things in the late 19th century. I've added this. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Okay, that's good. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Plot

• Check spelling: Union & union

• Fixed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• I think MOS discourages "whilst"

• Aww. Changed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Historical accuracy

• Probably should say who (critic or biographer) believed he listened to war stories in the town square - also did this happen when he was a child / youngster / growing up?

• Ugh. This is something that is often thrown about my various biographers and scholars, as if it's so very obvious, but no explanation is given. Crane MUST have listened to war stories! He probably even held interviews! Duh! I'm afraid I can't really substantiate it more than it already has been. He was in and out of Port Jervis throughout his life because of his family ties there, so it could have been anytime. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Don't worry about it - was just curious. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Style & genre

• Awkward patch here: "Throughout the work mentions are made"

• Fixed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• check punctuation with quotations for consistency

• Hmm, looks good to me, but I'm used to it. Does anything jump out at you? María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• This full sentence with quotation marks on the outside seems inconsistent with the earlier section: "Of course, I have never been in a battle, but I believe that I got my sense of the rage of conflict on the football field, or else fighting is a hereditary instinct, and I wrote intuitively; for the Cranes were a family of fighters in the old days". Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• The quoted sentence goes on after that point, with Crane talking about his ancestors who fought during the Revolutionary War, etc. It's kind of a run-on, which is why I cut it after "old days"; so the period outside the quotes is correct. María (habla conmigo) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• "Crane's realistic portrayal of the psychological struck a chord with reviewers, as one anonymous critic wrote" > semicolon after "reviewers" maybe?

• Good idea, done. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Themes

• explain "enlightened identity" ? I hate it when critics throw out stuff like that which needs to be explained, but I'm lost. How is he enlightened?

• Oh, that's a good point. Will expand that; I can add more about Henry's existential thoughts and such, but I've just added a taste for now. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Much better, thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• "However, that Henry ever matures is questionable due to the text's ambiguity" slightly awkward - can't think of a substitute off the top of my head

• Changed to: "However, the text is ambiguous, making it questionable that Henry ever matures." Better? María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Chapter 7 > chapter eighteen > consistency

• Fixed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Reception

• link The New York Times?

• Done. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Legacy

• Should probably explain why his career was short for readers who don't know he died young.

• Sure, done. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Crane's "anticipation of the modern spectacle of war has been noted by critics from the 20th and 21st centuries" > a tad passive. Maybe start with critics? Modern critics note, or something like that?

• Okay, changed per your suggestion. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• "went out of budget" > went over budget?

• Much better, done. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Notes

• Some of the notes have author (date) and others not > should probably be consistent.

• The dates are used to differentiate different works by the same author; I've used similar citing tactics at other Crane articles, and I'm kind of partial. :) María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Yeah, I used to do that too, but too many source reviewers now want consistency so I just throw in dates for all the books. Not a big deal here at all, and if it's an issue at FAC, easy to take care of. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Good point. I'll guess I'll cave in and just add the years for everything soon enough. María (habla conmigo) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

References

• NY or New York?

• New York, fixed. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Roy Morris' essay - is that in a collection with an editor? If so, I'd note the editor's name.

• Okay, added. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Images

• File:Battle of Chancellorsville.png - the file says the publishers are Kurz & Allison. Do we know the artist? Not sure it's important, but am curious.

• This is tricky. The LOC overview lists Kurz & Allison under "creator", and nothing else. Perhaps the original artist is unknown? Hmm, now I'm curious. I'll see if I can find anything further. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• Good luck - was only wondering. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Quote boxes

• Should they be treated as block quotes without quotation marks? Also, maybe identify in the box that the text is from the book? Both are a stylistic issues that I'm not too bothered about.

• I never know what to do with quote boxes! I think they add a great visual for the article, but I never know how to attribute, quotes or no quotes, etc. I used quotation marks on Crane's article, and with The Open Boat, but I'm not sure how the MOS treats it. I did start off including "Crane, The Red Badge of Courage" as attribution, but it seemed very repetitive after two or three boxes. Isn't it kind of obvious the quotes are from the book in question? I have no idea. If you think I should change it, let me know. María (habla conmigo) 15:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

• I treat them as blockquotes without quotation marks and add the source, and a little descriptive tidbit, but as I said, it's a stylistic preference. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you're good to go; the outstanding minor issues aren't GA requirements, so no big deal. Just need to update the various pages. Congratulations and good luck with this! Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much! Great review. I'll keep working on it and it'll probably be listed at PR within the week. María (habla conmigo) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Recent edits

I've been watching this article since doing the GA review - see above - and have restored to a previous version some of the recent changes to the lead. I've left my rationale in the edit summaries, but am starting this thread in case there are questions/issues. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Truthkeeper, I agree that it mostly read better before. María (habla conmigo) 22:15, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I would have to disagree. You can actually start a sentence with an adverb saying " Thematically, the story explores" is the same as saying "The story thematically explores" and is much less wordy (and less passive) then "Several of the themes that the story explores are". However, I do not feel to emotionally attached to this content, and am going to step away from this article, good luck with FAC, Sadads (talk) 22:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Infobox

Considering that this is a book, shouldn't we add one? | ^help_dןǝɥ | 19:19, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Infoboxes aren't required for book articles, so it's usually a style preference. Seeing as how this particular article became Featured without having an infobox, I don't think it's truly necessary. It wouldn't add anything, just duplicate what is already in the lead. María (yllosubmarine) 19:24, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Citation Needed...

"While some reviewers also found fault with Crane's narrative style, grammar mistakes, and apparent lack of traditional plot,[68] the novel's uniqueness in story and style was heralded by others."

...no citation after "heralded by others". Who? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:47, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

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