Talk:The Sims 2: Nightlife/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos (talk · contribs) 21:04, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

• "The Sims 2, sequel to the original" - you can be 'the sequel', or 'a sequel', but you can't just 'sequel'
• This is not germane to this article but I wonder if there's room somewhere for The Sims game mechanics or Glossary of The Sims or something. A lot of the concepts recur throughout the series but might be arcane to someone not familiar with them.
• Last two sentences of background both have "include", which you might want to adjust
• "The core of The Sims 2: Nightlife is its social opportunities" I don't love this phrasing but I'm not sure how to reword. "The core mechanic of" maybe?
• "include" in both the first and second sentences of Gameplay
• Honestly actually I'm not sure you need both the first and second sentences of Gameplay, they seem to be restating the same thing
  • I've handled all three of these by reducing it down to a revamped version of the second sentence. (After a short attempt at formally studying game design, I'm terrified of calling anything a 'game mechanic' in the colloquial sense, because the term-of-art sense is a lot narrower than the colloquial one.) But yeah, you're right that was a bit repetitive. Vaticidalprophet 08:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• "The Sims 2 has an aspiration system..." could go in Background, I think
• "Pleasure sims" or "Grilled Cheese sims" - this is a fan phrase; it's tighter but I'm not sure it's encyclopedic. You could maybe get away with it if you explain the wording in Background? ("Sims are sometimes referred to with their aspiration, for example as Fortune sims")
  • hmm. I'll see if I can secondary-source that in any way (there are tricky gaps here around "things that are so obvious secondary sources don't bother"), and review the Prima guides for if they primary-source use the terminology -- I'm pretty sure they do, at least the later ones. Vaticidalprophet 08:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
    • Yep, looking back over, Nightlife's Prima guide says "Pleasure sims", "Grilled Cheese sims", etc, so it's the official terminology. Do you think this needs/wants footnoting? Vaticidalprophet 08:35, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
      • I'd be happy with a footnote. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
• I would link inventory (video games)
  • Done. Vaticidalprophet 08:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• "Motives" in this sense is another Sims-specific wording, which I think should be explained somewhere, or just removed (imagine reading this without familiarity, the word "motives" doesn't make sense in this context unless you know it)
• "Lemon Jelly's EPs, which had each been limited to 1,000 copies" might want to mention these are their early EPs; right now it's not clear if they're EPs of the game's music
• "game's social element" should that be plural?
• "Tsukitaka... compared it to The Sims: Hot Date" we've already discussed Hot Date earlier so I don't think it needs to be explained again here as a similar expansion
  • I tend to think from an "if the reader looks only at this section, will they be able to make any sense of it"? That said, I wrote the lead after writing both mentions in the bodies, so this may be tweakable. Vaticidalprophet 08:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• "Upon release, Nightlife was a commercial success." I would move this whole paragraph up and out of "Contemporary reception" so it's the second para in the whole Reception section. Objective things like sales numbers and receiving awards don't quite seem to fit with subjective reception
  • Done, though I'm not sold on it. Vaticidalprophet 08:33, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
• Later reception discusses how vampires can be hybridized, but I don't see that discussed elsewhere - seems odd to only discuss it in the reception area
  • I've added a little on this to the gameplay section, which is now overfull, but that's what you get with vampires. Following the other changes to reception, I've also tweaked the relevant paragraph to make it clearer what distinguishes each para. Vaticidalprophet 22:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
• Honestly I'm not sure Cresswell's review belongs here - he's not talking about Nightlife in specific, but about Sims 2 in general. He barely even mentions the Nightlife vampires.
  • Fair point. I've also restructured the first paragraph towards a clearer focus. Vaticidalprophet 22:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
• "Another element of Nightlife to recur throughout the series is Mrs. Crumplebottom" ... but "Mrs. Crumplebottom herself is exclusive to Nightlife". How does she recur if she's an exclusive?
  • I've tried to clarify this one a little, though I think there's still work to be done. Vaticidalprophet 13:25, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
    • On re-read, I feel like this whole last paragraph suffers from a bit of over-explanation/repetitiveness. You spent some time earlier talking about the comparative vampire aesthetics, then repeat the same thing here. I'd remove it earlier since it's better placed here in the comparison paragraph. I'd also split the first sentence; revise the first half to something like "Some reviewers have compared elements in Nightlife to their later appearances in the series.", then get into the vampires. Then with Crumplebottom I would maybe go like, "One of the expansion pack's major non-playable characters is Mrs. Crumplebottom, an elderly woman who chides sims making public displays of affection. Although her family recurs throughout the series, she does not; Marina DelGreco at Game Rant bemoaned her exclusion from The Sims 4, arguing her addition would increase the challenge of dates at community lots." ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

That's all I got! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:27, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments! I was thinking about the glossary-thing throughout -- there's a little jargon that can be contextualized but not completely avoided -- but in practice I suspect such an article would take about five minutes to end up at AfD. I'll see what I can do about repetitive wording. The Crumplebottom bit is a bit of a mess -- they're a family of very similar sims that recur through the series, but this specific character is Nightlife-exclusive, and I probably lost the thread somewhere trying to explain those. I'll get on it. Vaticidalprophet 08:04, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Premeditated Chaos, how are you feeling about it now? I've actioned a bunch of these and expanded the admittedly-spindly lead. I'm not sure if the "sequel" one is actionable -- it feels to me like one of those false-title things (at least I read "X, sequel to Y" as normal English in the same sense people argue about false titles), but I'll see if this comes up at seven more GANs. "Social element" I don't think has to be a regular plural in the sense I'm using it here, but it could go either way? Vaticidalprophet 22:57, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

I have never in my life seen "sequel" used as an adjective that way. I've always seen it written as "the sequel" or "a sequel". I still think "motives" is a sticking point; it makes no sense unless you're familiar with Sims jargon. There's also the Lemon Jelly EP clarification not done. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I've restructured the sentence to not use "sequel" in the first place. The soundtrack section's been restructured a little to try clarify (I'm not entirely happy with the prose, though -- you might want to double-check?), and footnoted 'motives'. Vaticidalprophet 18:38, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

I think we're good here, I'm gonna pass it. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:44, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.