Talk:The Station nightclub fire/Archive 1

Archive 1

Q&A

The owner is Jeffrey A. Derderian, the reporter is Jeff Derderian? Are these two the same or is there some error?

They are the same person. --matt kane's brain 17:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a question about this line

     On December 9, 2003, the two owners of the nightclub,
   Jeffrey A. and Michael A. Derderian, and Daniel M. Biechele, the band's former road manager, 
   were charged with 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter — two per death. 

Why was he charged with 2 counts per death? It seems a bit strange. --Doom Child 03:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The Derderians face two counts of involuntary manslaughter, which involves an unintentional killing, for each person who died in the fire because they were indicted under two separate theories of the crime.

One theory, called criminal-negligence manslaughter, results from a legal act in which the accused ignores the risks to others and someone is killed. The other theory, called misdemeanor manslaughter, results from a petty crime that causes a death. Despite the term misdemeanor manslaughter, both forms of involuntary manslaughter are felonies under Rhode Island law, punishable by up to 30 years in prison.

Biechele was sentenced on only 100 counts of manslaughter because the U.S. Constitution's double jeopardy clause bars punishing a person twice for the same crime. If found guilty, the Derderians, likewise, could only be sentenced on a maximum of 100 counts. Source: www.projo.com

--NGC6254 09:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Fire Inspectors failed in their job

This whole tragedy would not of had happened if only the fire inspectors had done their job. They should of have asked about the foam. After all they are supposed to be trained profession about fire safety. I heard that one of the inspector who missed the foam was later promoted. This is really really messed up. All the inspectors should be fired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.238.39.26 (talk) 17:30, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 95.55.103.13 (talk) 20:51, 5 December 2009 (UTC) Was there any trials agains fire inspectors ? Actually they are one of the main responsibles for this crime.

Actually, a fire inspector is NOT generally responsible for the criminal (or tortious) acts of others, but may be held accountable for gross negligence in performance of his or her own duties. Actual liability varies by state law. The inspector in this case, who failed for three years to ask the Derdarians for flame- and smoke-rating data on the foam, subsequently resigned. Bottom line: the owner and contractor are responsible for fire code compliance -- the inspector is there to enforce the code, preferably with some competence. Compare: If you park over the time limit at a meter, and the local parking enforcement people ignore your violation, does that make them liable for damage or injuries resulting from your violation? Lupinelawyer (talk) 18:03, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Ty Longley

Should this article specifically mention the death of Great White band member Ty Longley? BD2412 T 14:49, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that mentioning the fact that the Great White guitarist Ty Longley died in the incident is appropriate and reasonable because of his celebrity status and obvious tie to the event.

Usage of word "crush"

To whomever changed the word "crush" to "rush": "Crush" is the word I intended (see definition below) in the phrase "crush for the door."

Main Entry: Crush

Function: noun

1 : an act of crushing 2 : the quantity of material crushed 3 a : a crowding together (as of people) b : CROWD, MOB; especially : a crowd of people pressing against one another 4 : an intense and usually passing infatuation <have a crush on someone>; also : the object of infatuation synonym see CROWD

(Source: www.m-w.com)

-NGC6254 04:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The sentence is intended to describe an action (e.g. people heading for the exit), so a verb (i.e. a word conveying an action, a 'doing' word) is required, not a noun. 86.7.211.128 (talk) 02:12, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Status of "The Doctor" (introduced Great White on stage)

According to the WHJY-FM website one of the airstaff "The Doctor" who introduced Great White on stage Thursday is among the missing.

His BIO is at this link: http://www.whjy.com/doctor.html

PMelvilleAustin 03:54 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

Caption?

There's no caption on the "Stationfirestart" image, and there's no info on the page for the image. I'm not familiar with that picture, so I don't know what's going on. Can anyone clarify and perhaps add a caption? -Etoile 07:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

No Mention Of Fire Code Violations

I think that the fact that there were inadequate emergency exits and that other exits may have been purposefully chained and locked should be included.

Factual reporting of the fire code violations would serve as a reminder to other nightclub etc owners of the need for safety rather than just preventing people from entering without paying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.114.227.220 (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

There are references to several code violations. Unlike certain OTHER tragedies, there were no locked exits in The Station fire. Lupinelawyer (talk) 18:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Victims

I think it would be appropriate to list the names of those that died, and survived. M8gen

Is there a precedent for that in wikipedia? For listing the names of victims of disasters? (Not being smart, actually asking.) If so, I agree one should be put here. I read in an article at the time that one victim was a waitress or bartender working on her birthday. I would add that notation to her name in the list as well if proper reference is found. (Alas, I don't remember where I read the article and do not have a copy myself to provide reference.)

Medleystudios72 (talk) 19:54, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Barry Warner

What about the foam salesman Barry Warner? I thought that I read an article that claimed that (1) he was a neighbor of The Station, (2) he complained about the noise, (3) he sold the foam to the owners, and then (4) sent the "anonymous" fax to prosecutors. Did he get off scott free? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.55.200.20 (talk) 16:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

"Referenced in" section removed

I have removed the section titled "Referenced in," for three reasons:

• It was not referenced.
• Its relevance to the article was not established, since there references mentioned were to nightclub fires in general, not specifically to this one. (Thus it could also have been considered original research.)
• Such collections of cultural references, as a general rule, do not add to the knowledge of a subject. See Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles.

Anyone wishing to dispute this action is welcome to comment here. Chick Bowen 20:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Removing "The Station Fire Memorial Foundation" section

On the basis that Wikipedia is not a memorial or a soapbox WP:NOT#MEMORIAL, WP:NOT#SOAPBOX I'm going to remove this whole section. There are too many names involved for that list to be encyclopaedic, and the text below is definitely not a neutral point of view. MorganaFiolett 10:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

• On second thoughts, and with a little more time, I've replaced the section but re-phrased the text to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view, and still left the list out. This decision is based on this discussion here- that may be asking specifically about IRA bombing victims but the debate is over the same thing, whether a list of names is encyclopaedic or not. I would invite anyone with more time or more knowledge on the memorial foundation to add details, but they must stay neutral as that's one of the five pillars of Wikipedia. MorganaFiolett 14:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
• MorganaFiolett, I agree with your editing of that section. I straightened out a lot of bad coding, grammar and spelling errors. The memorial section was totally out of place in the second section and so I moved it to the 5th spot. I agree in your decision to edit that section even further. It did seem as if it were using Wikipedia as advertising space. Wolf1728 06:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

4th deadliest

The article states this was the 4th deadliest nightclub fire in the U.S. What were the top three? Arx Fortis 16:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

1. Coconut Grove, Boston, 1942--492 dead

2. Rhythm Night Club, Natchez, Miss., 1940--209 dead

3. Beverly Hills Supper Club, Southgate, Ky., 1977--165 dead DragonflyDC 00:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks...I see it in the article now. I'm wondering if the mentions of the other three it should be moved to the intro or somewhere a little more prominent (if only because saying the 4th deadliest makes one wonder what the other three were). ++Arx Fortis 06:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed paragraph mentioning outside rail

I have removed the below paragraph, because it is not relevant to this event. The blockage of those exiting the building occurred at and was due to the narrow hallway leading to the main entrance.

Also the blueprints show that the entryway to the nightclub had a ramp which blocked off a straight exitway through the door. When exiting the building, one would have to exit either right or left because the building was constructed to lead two entry ways with the handrail running parallel with the building.

- NGC6254 01:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

station nightclub section deleted

I deleted this section for 2 reasons:

1. It was small and said things that the main article said

2. It needed cited and it was probably going to get deleted anyway

Coolgyingman 00:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Biechelemug.jpg

Image:Biechelemug.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 Done I have corrected this by citing the article in which it is used - NGC6254 (talk) 02:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

the station

it's sad that people had lost people in their families. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Panthers13 (talk • contribs) 15:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Why was Biechele charged?

The article does not state the crime that Biechele committed. I would like an explanation of this. So he set of the pyrotechnics. If the pyrotechnics were legal, why would he be guilty of manslaughter? If they were not legal, I would expect the article to make mention of this 131.107.0.108 (talk) 00:01, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Survivors

In one of the YouTube videos shot as the building burned down, one observes emergency services stretchering away a few people a long time after the had fire started, from the direction of the entrance. Were people pulled out of the building alive even as the inferno raged? 86.7.211.128 (talk) 02:15, 18 April 2010 (UTC)A few were found even after the fire was out.05:45, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Investigation/Warner "testimony"

I notice in the investigation section it states Warner "testified" there was a sales order for acoustical soundproofing foam..... so he verbally CLAIMS there was a sales order but doesn't actually have it? Sounds like bull sheet! There's no reference for that, anyone know if it's true? The court bought that?Batvette (talk) 14:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't get your drift... what are you suggesting is the truth?

In this Providence Business News article, Warner says he was never asked about the foam's flammability, and did not tell the Derderians about it. His company paid $6.3M in settlements.

In this ClaimsJournal article, Warner says he faxed the court an eight-page letter detailing the company's policy of not telling clients about flammability. The letter reads "This is a company that did little to educate their employees about the limits of polyurethane foam. In fact, they did the opposite ...This is a company that did not want to lose a sale by telling the truth."

In this WHDH article, Warner says he did not tell the Derderians they could have bought fire-retardant foam, that he did not tell them about any such option. He did not tell them they were buying "basic cheap foam".

Bottom line is that it appears Warner obtained a sales order from the Derderians buying untreated cheap acoustic foam from American Foam. If that was not the case, American Foam would not have paid so much in settlements. Binksternet (talk) 19:50, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Hero

Who is the man in the leather jacket trying to pull people out from the blocked front double doors? He sticks with it for as long as I could track him. Whoever you are, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.176.9.105 (talk) 14:23, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Need sections on code violations and immediate changes in new fire codes?

There are several suggestions in the article about violations of fire code regarding sprinklers, exits, fireproof interior, and whatnot. Would it be useful to have a section collecting and summarizing those (perhaps under the NIST investigation)? Would it be useful to have a summary of the immediate changes made to some national Life Safety and Fire Codes (as part of the aftermath)? Or maybe those updates are already somewhere else, related to NFPA 101 (2006), or the like, and can be wikified in. At least we can show that these tragic deaths may have resulted in changes for the better. Lupinelawyer (talk) 18:44, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I think your suggestion is good. The reader would benefit from knowing more about the fire safety details of The Station, and from learning what changes were made because of the terrible loss of life. Binksternet (talk) 19:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that this would enhance the article. --Reify-tech (talk) 15:19, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Memorial update

[http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/18/4830876/ri-looking-at-legalities-of-seizing.html RI looking at legalities of seizing club fire site The Associated Press Published: Tuesday, Sep. 18, 2012]. 66.44.6.37 (talk) 15:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:The Station nightclub fire/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I think that certainly the Fire Marshal in West Warwick should have been included in any court procedings. Afterall he allowed the material. he should have done his job instead of blowing it off to lazyness.

Last edited at 15:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Possible GA status? / Infobox update

The article on the Colectiv nightclub fire was awarded WP:GA status and is impressively thorough, and the infobox summary at the top of the article is much more complete. I noticed that the Colectiv article uses the Template:Infobox event, whereas this article uses Template:Infobox news event. It turns out that both templates are documented on the same webpage, so the primary difference is that the Colectiv article uses more of the optional parameters to show more info.

If you haven't read the Colectiv article yet, I encourage you to do so. It should serve as an inspiration and feasibility proof that this Station article could reach GA status. Comments? Reify-tech (talk) 14:00, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

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Number of gerbs.

According to the NIST report and visible in the footage, there were actually 4 gerbs used with two in the center. I edited that into the fire section. JeffStickney (talk) 21:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)