Talk:The Talos Principle

ELOHIM or Elohim? Also apparently we’re talking about misleading links here

The game character’s name comes from a canonical misreading of the acronym EL-0 HIM, and in subtitles, the name is suitably rendered in all-caps. Doing the same here may also help differentiate this character from Elohim; the first instance here is unclear whether it’s simply calling itself by that name, or identifying itself as the divine being (albeit probably a little of both). —67.14.236.50 (talk) 11:17, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

@67.14.236.50: Per MOS:CAPS, we avoid words that are in full-caps and put them in standard case. The only exception this are acronyms, which is, though, not the case. Regarding the link, the reader might or might not want to know what "Elohim"; although the resulting article target does not talk about the character itself, it does talk about what Elohim is in general, which should be useful to the reader. Do you think it is not helpful? Either way, I will be putting this back into the article as long the discussion presists, so to maintain status quo. Cheers! Lordtobi (✉) 11:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

What do you mean, “not the case”? The name used in the game is an acronym. I just explained that.

The links are a separate concern, but please see WP:LEAST; if you click on a character’s name, you should be taken to information about that character. If anything else is the case, disambiguation is generally necessary, either in the link or in the text surrounding it. Perhaps something like, “the Milton Library Assistant, named after John Milton…” —67.14.236.50 (talk) 11:36, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Or look at it this way: If you’re reading about Pokemon, and you click on the word “Slowpoke,” you want to see the pink hippo thing. There is no other reason to click that word in that context. If you wind up reading a dictionary definition, something has gone wrong.

In this article, something went wrong. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 12:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

There is not really any other entity titled "Slowpoke", is there? We shouldn't assume that every reader knows what Elohim in any context is. You could also take Darksiders and the inability to link to the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Also, how is "ELOHIM" an acronym? "EL-0 HIM" does not explain that (e.g. "MS-DOS" is an acronym for "Microsoft Disk Operating System", but what is it for "ELOHIM"?). Lordtobi (✉) 12:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

To add to what Lordtobi says, we even have sourced info from the developers that EL0HIM is meant to be the representation of Elohim, so it's not a stretch of OR to make that connection. And yes, EL-0 HIM isn't an initialism or acronym; at best it could be called the 'leetspeak' name which we definitely don't user pr MOS:TM. --MASEM (t) 13:27, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

It's the Holistic Integration Manager running on server EL-0 of the Extended Lifespan project. EL-0 HIM. ELOHIM. I'd disagree with anyone who said it wasn't contrived, for sure, but the name the program uses for itself is based on a misreading of that designation. The characters of Darksiders are presented in-universe as the literal Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. ELOHIM is a malfunctioning computer program managing a simulation; it would be fairly difficult to mistake that for a literal deity, even for any in-universe humans. —67.14.236.50 (talk) using public network 151.132.206.26 (talk) 21:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

I edited just the first mention, but it was reverted citing MOS:CAPS, ignoring MOS:CAPSACRS. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 12:20, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

It is not an acronym in the general sense (even if it was, we would need to say what it is in full first), and changing just one mention might confuse readers. Also, do you have a reliable source for the above claim? Lordtobi (✉) 12:43, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

The game itself as a primary source, yes. I haven’t looked around for secondary sources for this (though I’d be surprised if there weren’t any by now), assuming that the game would be sufficient for its own in-universe information. I could look through the in-game “files” if you want, but I know there were also multiple references to each of EL, the EL-0 and EL-1 servers, and HIM. Have you not come across these yourself? —67.14.236.50 (talk) 21:44, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't see what is the point of this nitpicking. The main character in the game is referred to as Elohim and is called that way intentionally to be in line with the overarching themes of AI and VR. Even the companion game released by the developers is titled "Sigils of Elohim" (not "Sigils of EL-0 HIM"). InflatableSupertrooper (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Links

Please review these two edits meant to address the concerns of both sides: [1], [2]. Hopefully at least one of these ideas is acceptable to all. Let me know. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 02:02, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Review quotes… and nothing else

The first paragraph of § Reception was nothing more than a bunch of quotes from reviews thrown together without context. (I reformatted it into a list because… well, it’s just a bunch of quotes thrown together.) Can we rewrite that whole bit, using some of our own words in between fewer quotes? I’ll attempt it myself if no one else does, but other people’s writing often tends to be better than mine. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 22:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Sure. The current list of blurbs is unacceptable, the entire section as is looks like the back of the game's packaging. InflatableSupertrooper (talk) 20:01, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Point is spot on. For purposes of avoiding promotion, I've stripped the quotes, leaving the references, but this does need a proper reception section that could use those quote in context of larger point. --MASEM (t) 20:27, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Talos Principle 2 page?

Is there a reason that the Talos Principle 2 currently only has a redirect? Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, it doesnt even have a draft, and is arguably more notable the original TTP Brinlong (talk) 21:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

@Brinlong, nobody has written the article yet. I'm more interested in playing it right now. Schazjmd (talk) 21:50, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Athena

The sequel makes it clear that the player character in this game takes the name Athena after the main ending. Can we refer to the android here as Athena rather than as the android? The name doesn’t appear in the first game or its DLC, but it seems strange for us not to mention it at all. —96.8.24.95 (talk) 07:00, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

The name is never used in this game, so I'd tend to say no. IceWelder [✉] 18:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Concerns of plot spoilers

Someone who's never played hit video-game Talos Principle, wants to do so, and also wants basic information about the game, when they arrive at this current wikipedia article, are immediately told what a key part of the story is - which would otherwise be revealed throughout the story's unfolding - in the second paragraph.

This is absurd. Plot details, including spoilers, in articles are usually relegated to "Plot" sections.

It's like going to the page for Silent Hill 2 and being told, among the very first 3 paragraphs, that the title "Silent Hill" means [event from the end of the story].

Mystery and ignorance is very important for the enjoyment of stories.

Please consider revising this second paragraph, excising any mention of what exactly the title means, or rephrasing to make clear it's information revealed early in the game. If this is a misunderstanding, an acknowledging response is enough. Unknow0059 (talk) 22:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:SPOILERS we do not hide relevant plot details. — Masem (t) 06:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)