Talk:The Wörld Is Yours

Requested move 4 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 11:05, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

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The Wörld Is Yours → The Wörld Is Yours (Motörhead album) – WP:SONGDAB: stylism The World Is Yours (Scarface album), The World Is Yours (Ian Brown album) and The World Is Yours (The Union album).. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. If someone actually types in the "ö" we can be pretty sure they are trying to get to this article. The proposed title is probably the least likely search term, after the current title and The World Is Yours (Motorhead album)/The World Is Yours (Motörhead album) (without the "ö"). Dohn joe (talk) 17:41, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

What kind of 'oppose' is that? "If someone actually types in the "ö" ..." you make it sound as if it's highly unlikely they would. And sure enough if "If someone actually types in the "ö" they will still get the article, so what's the down-side to (Motörhead album)? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

The downside is it's superfluous. My point is not that typing in the "ö" is likely or unlikely - just that it is intentional. Someone typing in the "ö" does not want any of the "ö"-less "The World Is Yours"es. Dohn joe (talk) 18:29, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

For the sake of argument let's hypothetically assume that it is "superfluous" to 100% of all readers, that all Wikipedias users from a sheep farmer in Tierra del Fuego to a grandmother in Tokyo can identify the "ö" on World as meaning (Motörhead album), that there is not a single person on the planet who wouldn't immediately know by "ö" that this obviously and certainly must be a (Motörhead album). Even then, how is (Motörhead album) a downside? What exactly is the loss/disadvantage/disbenefit to anyone of having (Motörhead album) on a Motörhead album? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support Per nom. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose exactly per dohn joe. Red Slash 02:29, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. Diacritics are indeed very efficient disambiguators, given that they are not present on the majority of English keyboards. Steel1943 (talk) 03:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

That's fine on using a PC because typing The World Is Yours (M... produces the the redirect The World Is Yours (Motorhead album). But on an Android? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

I've used both Android's and iOS's typing functions, and I know that at least on iOS, the letter has to be held down for a short period of time prior to being able to produce a letter with diacritic instead of a letter without. The majority of users are unaware of this function. I'd assume it's very similar on Android. Steel1943 (talk) 14:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support per nom -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 06:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. The reason given for the move, as I understand it, is "consistency with other similarly titled albums". I don't regard that as a big enough benefit to justify a move. An admittedly small downside of the move is that people using the correct name, including those who have bookmarked the current page, get a "redirected from" message which they don't really need. Siuenti (talk) 23:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 10 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. There is both support and opposition for the principle, but overall not a firm consensus one way or the other, so the page stays where it is. Proposals to change WP:SMALLDETAILS should be ideally made at its talk page, although I would note that the fact that it's cited there doesn't mean it automatically can't be moved - consensus in RMs still rules the roost, as happened at Talk:Red_Meat_(comic_strip)#Requested_move_4_December_2018.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:52, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

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The Wörld Is Yours → The Wörld Is Yours (Motörhead album) – Six-and-a-half years ago User:In ictu oculi submitted this nomination at Talk:The Wörld Is Yours#Requested move 4 February 2015, above, specifying "WP:SONGDAB: stylism The World Is Yours (Scarface album), The World Is Yours (Ian Brown album) and The World Is Yours (The Union album)". This type of stylization has been referenced as a "metal umlaut", but since English orthography does not employ such symbols, it seems counterintuitive for English Wikipedia main title headers to be disambiguated solely by accents or diacritics. The Wörld Is Yours has been mentioned at Talk:Sócrates#Requested move 28 August 2021, where the footballer Sócrates is disambiguated from the ancient philosopher solely by the accent mark. — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:34, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. This page is literally a textbook example of WP:SMALLDETAILS, as it is cited in the policy. Unless that policy is changed, it has to stay. 162 etc. (talk) 16:14, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@162 etc.: who added it? In ictu oculi (talk) 19:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

See this edit from 2015. 162 etc. (talk) 20:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I'm famous Red Slash 19:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose as unnecessary, per all the oppose comments above, including the previous RM. If someone is actually typing "The Wörld Is Yours", this is the article they want. The World Is Yours, on the other hand, is already a dab page. There is no problem here. Station1 (talk) 16:39, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom and per WP:CRITERIA - which states that a title must "unambiguously" identify the article's subject and that it must be distinguished from other subjects. I think that this overrules WP:SMALLDETAILS. Small details only has one example with a diacritic change - and it is this article. However, I believe that for diacritics, WP:SMALLDETAILS should not apply, because this is enwiki and articles usually cannot be searched up using diacritics, and they are not standard to the English language. Paul Vaurie (talk) 05:59, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
• Comment: WP:SMALLDETAILS should be changed, and this article should not be used as an example for the diacritics being disambiguation. Diacritics should never be disambiguation and that should be clear in SMALLDETAILS, yet it isn't. Paul Vaurie (talk) 06:02, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose or move to The World Is Yours (Motörhead album), this appears to be the only use of the diacritic so per WP:SMALLDETAILS anyone intentionally typing this could only be looking for this one. Crouch, Swale (talk) 06:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

That doesn't follow actually. We can do both. Umlaut and dab. Whatever helps the maximum number of readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support obviously the umlaut is missing in many print sources and (Motörhead album) does nothing but benefit readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose The Wörld Is Yours (Motörhead album); neutral between The Wörld Is Yours and The World Is Yours (Motörhead album). If the article were at The Wörld Is Yours (Motörhead album), then The Wörld Is Yours could not be anything other than a primary redirect to the article, a violation of WP:PARENDAB conventions. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 19:16, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

• Neutral WP:SMALLDETAILS is dying, and this would probably be the death knell. I'm the one who created WP:SMALLDETAILS (the link, not the policy) and the one who first included this on that page as an example of acceptable differentiation by details. I think it's time for SMALLDETAILS to die. That discussion should probably be tackled at WP:AT. In the meantime, if someone wants to explain why SMALLDETAILS is a good idea, I would appreciate that. Red Slash 19:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. I'm of the opinion that RMs should be guided by policies, and not the other way around, so I voted oppose based on that. However, I do think SMALLDETAILS goes a bit too far. Looking forward to any discussion regarding possible changes to the policy (at the appropriate talk page, not here.) 162 etc. (talk) 20:36, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Since you asked, SMALLDETAILS is a good idea because an iron maiden is a torture device but Iron Maiden is a rock band. Someone using caps almost always wants the rock band while someone using lower case might want the far less popular torture device or might be too lazy to use a shift key and so needs to click through a hatnote. Both topics are at their correct and concise natural titles, and the software can accommodate the small difference (m vs M). The Wörld Is Yours is not quite as obvious, but the diacritic is the same small difference that lets the software distinguish two topics. If someone wants The Wörld Is Yours and so takes the trouble to type in the correct and concise unique natural name, why should we force them somewhere else? Station1 (talk) 18:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.