Talk:The best 33 football players of Ukraine

Move

16:47, 28 February 2017‎ Steel1943 (talk | contribs)‎ . . (42 bytes) (+42)‎ . . (Steel1943 moved page The best 33 (Ukraine) to The best 33: Remove unnecessary disambiguation) (thank)

@Steel1943: seems uk:Список 33 найкращих футболістів сезону в СРСР is far more notable than the Ukraine list. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:14, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 20 March 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There seems to be a general agreement that this article isn't at the best location, but there is so far no definite agreement as to where that new location should be. I recommend a non-RM discussion about possible titles (and maybe adjusting other similar article titles), and when there's a general consensus on that either ping me or start up a new RM and refer to this one (essentially this is an NPASR close). Primefac (talk) 16:25, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

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The best 33 → The best 33 (Ukraine) – There was the best 33 lists in Soviet [1] and Russian [2] football also. 194.50.51.252 (talk) 12:05, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

• Support but 33 найкращі футболісти України Best 33 Football Players (Ukraine) would be more literal as a title given the paucity of English sources. Or even Footballers of the Year (Ukraine) if we want to help readers understand what the article is about. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:08, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose ... unless The best 33 can be converted to a disambiguation page that meets MOS:DAB guidelines. At the present time, the above WP:REDLINKs have no incoming links, so technically, there is no way to use them on a disambiguation page and have them meet MOS:DABMENTION. In a nutshell ... at the present time ... I oppose this move per WP:PRECISE since there are no existing articles to disambiguate against. Steel1943 (talk) 14:48, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

  Struck out part of my statement that referred to an issue that was never mentioned or exists. Steel1943 (talk) 17:06, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

  @Steel1943: why not create an article based on the Russian one? I have to say though that my preference would be to simply merge this as a footnote into Ukrainian Footballer of the Year since this is how the Russian Best 33 award seems to being handled. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:13, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

  (edit conflict) @In ictu oculi: Such a page's creation would obviously negate my opposition to this move; my aforementioned opposition is in response to the nominator's claim that this article is not the primary topic for "The best 33". I have no opposition to this being moved to a title that isn't "The best 33 (DISAMBIGIATOR)" as long as The best 33 still redirects there ... while it is the only existing article on the English Wikipedia that can be referred to as "The best 33". Steel1943 (talk) 18:20, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@Steel1943: I know that your objective here is to improve articles. The real problem we have been left by this article is that this Spisok 33, like the Soviet and Russian list of 33, is only a shortlist of sorts which feeds into the real best player awards, which again, belong as a footnote down in the Ukrainian Footballer of the Year article. Which do you think would be better? A merge of the Ukrainian list, or creating the Russian list of 33? In ictu oculi (talk) 18:24, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi: I suppose it would depend on the individual lists' respective notability as standalone lists. Due to my lack of familiarity with these subjects, based on what you have said thus far, I would have to assume that these lists are not related to each other strongly enough for them to be bundled together on one list article, and should probably be separate. (The exception to this, in my mind, would be if all of these lists were published by the same entity and were notable as being published by that entity ... then the lists should probably be on the same article due to being strongly related and not notable as standalone subjects.) Steel1943 (talk) 18:30, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

No, they aren't related. The Ukrainian newspaper Komanda replicating the Soviet/Russian list is just a local Ukrainian initiative. Hence, that would indicate a standalone: List of 33 Best Football Players of the Year (Soviet Union). In ictu oculi (talk) 18:45, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose per Steel1943. We don't disambiguate titles that refer to only one article on WP. --В²C ☎ 16:08, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
• Propose instead Ukraine football's best 33. The title fails Wikipedia:Article_titles#Precison. It is a foreign only topic, with descriptive titles in the native language. "Best 33" is almost a proper name. Ukraine or Ukrainian football is implied context in all sources (notability is dubious). Both "Ukraine" (or "Ukrainian") and "football" (soccer) are necessary to identify the topic. Parenthetical disambiguation is not called for, as this is not a case of an ambiguous commonname. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:29, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
  • Maybe, The best 33 football players in Ukraine (Russia, Soviet Union)? 194.50.51.252 (talk) 00:30, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose as introducing unnecessary disambiguators. Pppery 00:33, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

The best 33 (Soviet Union) exists. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:55, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

But that article isn't titled "The best 33". Pppery 19:14, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

@Pppery: how is that relevant? The article exists, the redirect exists. What difference does it make whether the article is at the article location or the redirect location? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:22, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

• Support some move, but oppose the proposed one. The present title and the proposed one both appear to fall afoul of WP:THE, and perhaps even WP:COMMONNAME. The creation of a (similarly poorly titled) Soviet article makes it unlikely that this one is the primary topic of "The best 33" even if that's it's common name. I suggest reviewing the sources for both articles to determine what the real common name is, and disambiguating accordingly.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:05, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.