Talk:NHK Party

Requested move 16 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 16:15, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

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The Party that Teaches How to Not Pay the NHK License Fee → NHK Party – This longform name is intended to be temporary, and is not often used. The party leader announced he will change the name many times in the future, and that the party should be called by its official shortform name instead, which will be kept the same even when the longform changes. I would like to move this page to the shortform, but it does not allow me because of redirect I made. Please help me move this page. Boris Light (talk) 18:04, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 20:47, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

• Needs discussion: as far as I can tell, the name "Anti-NHK Party" is more common. (t · c) buidhe 19:06, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

  The name "Anti-NHK Party" does not exist in Japanese. It might work as a description in English or a newspaper jargon, but it is not a naming of the party. The party recently changed its name, please read the article, and this has not been addressed in English sources yet. However, you will see the party website uses the Engish name NHK Party. This name "NHK Party" is the official short form name as recognised by Ministry of Internal Affairs from 5 February 2021. The party intends to change the long form many times in the coming months, so this article will need to be a moved many times if you leave it at this title. The NHK Party name will stay the same according to the party leader, so it is best to move to short name. Please do not to make strange arguments if you do not understand topic. I suggest you read this article for informations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boris Light (talk • contribs) 16:18, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

  The links you have provided are written in Japanese. Per WP:USEENGLISH, we should use the common name that is used in independent reliable sources that are written in English. — BarrelProof (talk) 20:21, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

  There are not many English sources on this party. Those that have been written were written before the party changed names, and use "Party to Protect the People from NHK", the party's old name, not the current title. I am opposed to the current title, because it will never be common name in English or Japanese and the party leader says he change party name again soon. However, short form NHK Party will be staying same. It is strange to request that only English sources should be used when there are no English sources in existence post-name change. If you have problem with lack of English sources, you should hate current name, which is not use in any sources because again, there are no English sources on the party post-name change. If you dislike NHK Party as name for some strange reason, at least put it back The Party to Protect the People from NHK that was actually used in English sources. But this is stupid argument — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boris Light (talk • contribs) 01:33, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

  One of the sources cited in the article is Guerrera-Sapone, Max (15 January 2021). "YouTube and Japan's New Political Underground: The Rise and Decline of The Party to Protect the People From NHK". The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus.. It is written in English, dated recently (January 15, 2021), and seems like a well respected reliable source. It calls it the "The Party to Protect the People From NHK". — BarrelProof (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

  Can you READ what I am writing? I am the one that added that source into the article. That was before the party changed names on 5 February. The party long form name and short form name CHANGED. Old one was long form "The Party to Protect the People From NHK" and short form "N-Koku". New one is "The Party that Teaches How to Not Pay the NHK License Fee" long form and "NHK Party" short form. Before the name changed there were some English sources using that old name. As I am saying above, no English sources have covered the party post-name change. It does not make sense that this article uses name The Party that Teaches How to Not Pay the NHK License Fee as if it is common name in English, when no article uses that name because no article has been published on the party in English post-name change. It is not common in Japanese either and party leader intends to change it again soon. It is part of his strategy of keep changing name. Old name is better than current name of article. But this does not change that the fact that the party name has changed. Party leader says he will keep NHK Party short form no matter what the party name changes to. That is why I propose it as best name. Please try and read and understand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boris Light (talk • contribs) 16:25, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

  Move to Anti-NHK party or Anti-NHK Party – Whatever is the latest news that the party declared in a Japanese-language pronouncement (a pronouncement by the party that "intends to change [its name] many times in the coming months" and has already done so several times), it sounds like more of an anti-NHK party than an NHK party, so the proposed title seems misleading. There was at least one English-language independent source that called it an anti-NHK party, which is accurate, so that is my suggestion. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:57, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

  Strong oppose this proposed naming. There is no such naming as "Anti-NHK Party" in Japanese, and this is an original research and misleading. The party has no such name in its English communications. The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Japan recognized "NHK Party" as new official short form and it is used by Japanese media. If it was misleading, it would not be recognized. Furthermore, this party is not anti-NHK. As you read in article you cited above Guerrera-Sapone, Max (15 January 2021). "YouTube and Japan's New Political Underground: The Rise and Decline of The Party to Protect the People From NHK". The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus., the goal is to reform NHK, not to simply destroy it. Party leader is former NHK staff and has strong emotion in favor of public of broadcasting. This is example of people not familiar with topic making strange decisions. If you cannot stand NHK Party naming, the solution is to move it back to The Party to Protect the People from NHK which is actual common name in English, even if it is old name of party. Boris Light (talk) 16:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

  No objection to The Party to Protect the People from NHK. As noted above, that is a name that has been used in what appears to be an English-language independent reliable source (The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus), and was characterized as the "actual common name in English". — BarrelProof (talk) 19:46, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose any move at this stage. Fascinating... several single purpose accounts with no disclosed COIs that I can see. Let the dust settle a bit before deciding what the name should be, just set up multiple redirects meantime. Andrewa (talk) 09:31, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 24 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Weak consensus to revert to The Party to Protect the People from NHK. No such user (talk) 12:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

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The Party that Teaches How to Not Pay the NHK License Fee → The Party to Protect People from Old Political Parties – The current name "The Party that Teaches How to Not Pay the NHK License Fee" is not the current name of the party, and it's not a common way of referring to the party in either English or Japanese. Ketchup901 (talk) 16:23, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose: This political party has changed its name over and over and has said it plans to keep doing so, so the party's most recent self-decreed name should carry no weight whatsoever. The party's notability seems to have originated with the NHK license fee issue, and we have no evidence that independent reliable sources have been using the proposed name as the party's common name. This appears to be coming from another recently created account with a low number of edits, and started with an attempt to move the article using WP:RMTR without discussion. — BarrelProof (talk) 03:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

  The exact same argument can be applied to the current title, as it was meant as a short-lived name from the beginning. If party's most recent self-decreed name should carry no weight whatsoever, then neither should the second most recent, which is what the current title is. If we follow your argument, the article should be moved back to The Party to Protect the People from NHK or moved to some other common name. See WP:NAMECHANGES. Per WP:COMMONNAME the current title is unsuitable as this is not a recognized name of the party and no independent reliable sources have been using the current title of the article as the party's common name. Either keep the title of the article up to date with the party name or decide on a common name. Ketchup901 (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

  I think I agree. The Party to Protect the People from NHK seems like a good choice. As noted in prior RMs, that name has been used in independent reliable sources. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:42, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Move to NHK Party — it's probably the common name; frequent name changes mean that the short-lived official names will not be the common name. Tol | Talk | Contribs 02:18, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
• Move to Anti-NHK Party this term is more commonly used in English language media than any other term for the party.[1] It also describes what the party's issue is. (The term "NHK Party" is less common when you discount the hits of "Anti-NHK Party" as well as hits for various compound names such as "Protect the People from NHK Party".) (t · c) buidhe 19:06, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

  That seems good to me too. I think it's better than "NHK Party". But Boris Light (an SPA, although apparently without COI) didn't like it in the previous discussion. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:22, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose as proposed, revert to The Party to Protect the People from NHK – This is truly a mess, but I don't like any of the proposals above. The current title is not the common name, the proposed title is not the common name, 'NHK Party' is no longer the official short form according to the Japanese Wikipedia, and 'Anti-NHK Party' is incorrect, doesn't exist in Japanese, and seems irrelevant in the current context of the party's existence. Therefore, the logical thing to do is revert to the party's primary name The Party to Protect the People from NHK, which is used by the bulk of RS, and even by the few academic sources cited in the article. This seems like the best option, especially given that it seems that the party's notoriety derives entirely from the phase when it was called The Party to Protect the People from NHK. RGloucester — ☎ 00:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
• Move to The Party to Protect the People from NHK seems to be the best comprimise. -Kj cheetham (talk) 16:04, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 15 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to NHK Party. Number 57 11:24, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

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The party that protects those who do not pay the NHK license fee → Anti-NHK Party – This party political party changed their name again, the sixth time in the past two years, and their party leader in the past have declared they will actively change their party name into the future (Link is to a blog of a senator who belongs to the party which mentioned this), it can reasonably be assumed that their official/full party name do not have any form of stability, and most people probably isn't going to tell for sure what is their latest party name. And thus it is ill-suited for the purpose of Wikipedia article title, as agreed in past discussion.

However, this does not mean the agreed upon or the current party name is good either. As pointed out in previous discussion, the agreed upon page name is no longer the party's official name anymore, and googling the current full page name result in only 179 hits with most of the hits being things like this wikipedia article itself, wikidata, dictionaries, mirrors or clones of wikipedia, or information from the party itself. Which indicate this long name have minimal notability or recognition in English, hence it doesn't really make sense to keep the article title as what it currently is either.

Now the problem become what should be the name of the new party. The official short form of the party name have been relatively stable as being "NHK Party", and it is also a direct translation to the common name that the party is being known for in Japanese (NHK党), however this lack clarity in English as the party's premise is to fight against NHK, and my Google search result of the term "NHK Party" shows that major outlets when writing their news in English, refer to the party as "anti-NHK party" instead of just "NHK party" almost universally (Mainichi, Jiji, Asahi, Japan Times, Kyodo), which also reflect the party's most prominent policy direction, thus I think this is a more well-known, appropriate, stable, and common name for the party now, thus more appropriate as the title of this wikipedia article on the party. (Users with other opinion should be aware that English language is not a direct translation of Japanese language, and that no one refer to the party as Anti-NHK party in Japanese doesn't mean there are a lack of people/sources in doing so in English language.) C933103 (talk) 19:46, 15 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • C • L)} 09:13, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

• Revert to The Party to Protect the People from NHK or support. Following the RM of May–June 2021, there was no consensus to change the name from The Party to Protect the People from NHK to The party fighting against NHK in the trial for violating Article 72 of the Attorney Act in November and then to The party that protects those who do not pay the NHK license fee in January. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:55, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
• Change to NHK Party or support. "NHK Party" is an official self-abbreviation, while "Anti-NHK Party" is used by English language media. Whatever way, it will be better than changing its name at every opportunity. --BSMIsEditing (talk) 13:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

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• Summary as of April 25: All three editors involved have expressed support to the renaming proposal. Two commenting editors have added alternative suggestion for the article name but neither suggestions have yet been echoed by others yet. Another things to be note is that, per Japanese Wikipedia corresponding article talk page, the political party is now applying for yet another renaming. C933103 (talk) 12:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

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• Wikipedia should follow usage rather than official naming, but it is probably worth noting that the party has renamed itself again to simply "NHK党" (NHK tō) on April 25, and their website explicitly states that the English form should be "NHK Party". Several of the sources above seem to be using "anti-NHK" as a descriptor rather than intending to call the party the "Anti-NHK Party", although that is of course a valid interpretation of their position. Either title is better than the current one. Dekimasuよ! 16:58, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

As per Dekimasu, NHK Party would be a good name, and is now the official name. BSMIsEditing (talk) 20:55, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Note that, this proposal will determine not just the current name of the article, but also in the future, even if the party name is to be changed a few months later (Which is all but certain to occur given their official stance on party name, as well as their past track record). C933103 (talk) 21:00, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

It's true that they change their name constantly for publicity, but no decision on the article title is final. If and when reliable sources change again, we should change the title again. In general, I think "NHK Party" is likely the best option here. "Anti-NHK party" is descriptive, but at any rate, their single issue is "NHK". Dekimasuよ! 04:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

The thing is, "if and when reliable sources change again" did not happens in the past in secondary sources, and we have no reason to follow the official name changes as article title, when secondary sources aren't following suit. Hence, unless usage in the media changes and new consensus formed, we shouldn't change the name mindlessly. This have also been established in other move requests in the past, and is in line with the wider range English Wikipedia policy. C933103 (talk) 12:13, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

No objection to NHK Party, considering the new comments. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Party name history and political position

For the sake of clarity and simplicity could someone please create a bullet point list or a table in the Party name history section listing the party's various names and the dates it was known by each respective name? I think this would make it much easier to scan through the page and understand for the average reader.

Also, someone has used this - https://www.syoha.jp/%E5%9F%BA%E6%9C%AC%E6%94%BF%E7%AD%96/ - on the page List of political parties in Japan to claim the party is right-wing. What do others think of this? I don't know what the reliability of this source is. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you. Helper201 (talk) 23:00, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

The source, which I added, is the official website of the party. It listed the party's current manifesto, which includes scrambling NHK to fight against the public boardcaster, down the sales/income/corporate tax, increase defensive ability and ability to attack enemy base, as well as safeguarding energy by developing nuclear energy. These are right wing policies but they do not outright state the party is right wing. So after giving it a second thought, I think secondary source should be added to show its political leaning. C933103 (talk) 09:15, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I have gone through some of other sites and checking their older manifesto.... In short I would say they are simply picking up whatever topic is popular at the time and put it into their party manifesto and have no clear leaning of left wing or right wing, like in past they have proposed UBI and free education also.. I tried to see whether there are any other sources describing them as left wing or right wing but no result can be yielded. I am thinking about N/A should probably be put as the party's position. C933103 (talk) 13:39, 28 April 2022 (UTC)