Talk:Theodore the Black

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Saints Low‑importance

	Saints portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saints, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Saints and other individuals commemorated in Christian liturgical calendars on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SaintsWikipedia:WikiProject SaintsTemplate:WikiProject SaintsSaints articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Christianity: Eastern O. Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy (assessed as Low-importance).

Russia: History / Military / Religion Mid‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
	This article is supported by the religion in Russia task force.

The parents of Anna the wife of Theodore

Latest comment: 9 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

In Russian, Ukrainian, French and Mongolian versions of this Wikipedia article Anna (mongol name Julduz (Юлдуз)) the second wife of prince Theodore was the daughter of Khan Mengu-Temur (Менгу-Тимур) and his wife Oldjaitu (Олджай Хатун). This is explained in details in the comment [7], which i copy first in Russian:

"Эта версия происхождения княгини Анны наиболее полно обоснована в: Иоанн (Вендланд К. Н.), митр. [[1]] Князь Фёдор. Исторический очерк. — Ярославль, 1990. — С. 31—37. Практически оставлена версия, что Анна — дочь темника Ногая. Есть версия о её происхождении от хана Тохты. См.: Александров Д. Н., Пчелов Е. В. О происхождении ярославских князей от Чингизидов // Ярославская старина. — 1994. — Вып. 1. — С. 37—38"

and also in the translation to English:

"This version of the origin of Princess Anna is most fully substantiated in: John (Wendland K.N.), Mitr. [[2]] Prince Fedor. Historical sketch. - Yaroslavl, 1990. - pp. 31-37. The version that Anna is the daughter of Temnik Nogai has practically been abandoned. There is a version about her origin from Khan Tokhta. See: Alexandrov D.N., Pchelov E.V. On the origin of the Yaroslavl princes from the Chingizids // Yaroslavl antiquity. - 1994. - Issue. 1. - pp. 37-38"

So it would be logical that English version of Wikipedia also follows this main version and change the Anna's father from "Nogai Khan" to "Mengu-Timur". One can certainly mention two other less probable versions in the comments, as in other language articles.

This father Mengu-Timur is much more logical even from the text of the English version, as Theodor was in close relations with Mengu-Timur and his wife in the Golden Horde capital Sarai on the river Volga and not with Nogai Khan, who was established in these years near river Danube, thousand kilometers to the West from Sarai.

In the Mongol version of this Wikipedia article there is the detailed genealogical tree of Anna starting from Genghis Khan, which unambiguously shows that Anna's father was Mengu-Timur (Мөнхтөмөр).

So, please, correct English version in line with Russian, Ukrainian, French and Mongol versions. Alexandre.rozanov (talk) 21:35, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Good point, I have updated this with an additional source. Mellk (talk) 22:00, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Add topic