Talk:Thermos (disambiguation)
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IT would be good if this page could be expanded
Requested move 7 December 2019
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Consensus to not move. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:28, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Thermos (disambiguation) → Thermos – There doesn't seem to be a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, even though vacuum flask receives more page views and incoming links, a vacuum flask isn't always called a thermos. Thermos normally only refers to vacuum flask for food/beverages, but "vacuum flask" normally refers to vacuum flask used for science and not so much for food/beverages. According to Google Ngram, vacuum flask is rarely used in books when compared to "Thermos" and "Dewar", meaning readers who end up at the Thermos article are likely not intending to be redirect to Vacuum flask as the term is likely not used often by them. Notifying everyone who toke part in the previous related move discussion for vacuum flask -> thermos: @Zxcvbnm, DMacks, and SMcCandlish:. – BrandonXLF (talk) 19:56, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose Even if "thermos" isn't primary, the vacuum flask is the clear primary topic for "thermos" as far as I can tell.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:29, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. Instead, move Thermos LLC to Thermos. I'm skeptical that any significant number of readers do not already understand that Thermos is a brand name of such flasks. If you go to get one from any general-goods, department, or outdoors store, you will find a big shelf/rack of vacuum-insulated bottles only some of which are named Thermos. You'd have to be either blind or brain-damaged to not understand. Thermos is no longer even the dominant brand in some types of product lines (e.g. Contigo is clearly dominant in the sports "hydration" insulated bottle market, Blender Bottle in the sub-niche of such bottles for protein mixes, and so on, while Thermos maintains the lead in its "traditional" niche, aimed primarily at use for coffee and soups). So, Thermos really should redirect to the trademark/product/company page – that brand of vacuum bottle is obviously the actual WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and the string "Thermos" is also obviously the WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT for the brand/product (the odds of any given reader knowing that the company uses "LLC" after its name is probably around 0.001%). Moreover, the company name has changed many times (though always containing "Thermos", a name everone recognizes while the full company names are known by almost no one). And there are actually numerous separate by related legal entities, beginning with Thermos GmbH in Germany; what is presently Thermos LLC in the US is just the US subsidiary. (All of them are now owned by a Japanese mega-corp.) But things like Thermos GmbH are redirecting to Thermos LLC, so the article is no longer about an American company, but about the Thermos product line and brand, and needs some rewriting. And renaming; Thermos is the stark-obvious choice.
Trademarks are not genericized until the courts say they are, at which point trademark status is lost, at least in that jurisdiction (as happened with aspirin, linoleum, laundromat, kerosene, etc.). The fact that some people mistakenly think Thermos is a genericized trademark (beyond lower-case use in one sub-national jurisdiction) and misuse it that way is irrelevant. We do not redirect Band-Aid or Kool-Aid to the generic product classes adhesive bandage or drink mix, nor to Band-Aid (disambiguation) or Kool-Aid (disambiguation). Depending on where you're from, people also use many other trademarks as if genericized, e.g. "Coke" generically to mean "soda/pop/soft drink, regardless of brand name" (typical in the American Southwest), Radarange to mean "microwave oven" (common among the 60+ set in the US), Xerox to refer to "copier machine", Kleenex to refer to "facial tissue paper", Tylenol to mean "acetaminophen/paracetamol", Tupperware to mean "plastic food-storage containers", Velcro for "hook-and-loop fastener", Tarmac for "asphalt" (primarily a Briticism and Canadianism), Popsicle for ice pop/lolly, and so on. See long list at List of generic and genericized trademarks § List of protected trademarks frequently used as generic terms. The fact that some individuals are unclear about the difference between a brand name and a class of products doesn't mean the encyclopedia can be so sloppy about it. And some of our "encyclopedic" information on such topics is flat-out wrong – including what we had written about Thermos! I just corrected it (at Thermos LLC and at List of generic and genericized trademarks), with additional sourcing. PS: Wikipedia willfully misusing valid trademarks as if generic terms actually has legal implications, since trademark holders are required to send demand letters and even file lawsuits to make such misusage by publishers stop, if they are to protect their marks.
— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:08, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. The current situation is satisfactory, with Thermos redirecting to Vacuum flask which has a hatnote to the company, because I do think a user is more likely to want to know about vacuum flasks than the company). I do accept SMcC's point about weaknesses with the company article (a move to Thermos (company)) would be a good idea, but that's another story. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 21:51, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.