Talk:Thinking outside the box

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Splitting proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to split content to nine dots puzzle. Lord Belbury (talk) 07:26, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

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I suggest that the "Nine dots puzzle" section (and its subsections about solving in three dimensions, and a prize that was named after it) be split into a separate article at Nine dots puzzle. It's a classic puzzle with a strong and sourceable pedigree beyond its connection to the 1970s management jargon, which it pre-dates by some sixty years. --Lord Belbury (talk) 17:20, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see any benefit to a split. The article is not too long, and although they could be viewed as separate topics, at this point they seem so closely interrelated that it is likely that most readers seeking one topic are either seeking the other as well, or should be informed about the other. Station1 (talk) 17:58, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

I support the split. The phrase think outside the box is an idiom, whereas the nine dots puzzle is, well, a puzzle. While undoubtedly related, they are different enough to warrant separate articles. ISaveNewspapers (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support – I think, as of 2022, both concepts are distinct enough to be separated. This follows most other Wikipedia languages, where the "nine dots puzzle" is a separate article. 'wɪnd (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Lord Belbury It seems we have a decision. Do you know how to split? I'm fairly new here. 'wɪnd (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Thanks for your impressive work expanding the puzzle section of the article. --Lord Belbury (talk) 07:26, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

:) Thank you for splitting, Lord Belbury.

It seems some relinking is still needed on: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1981020

Some of the languages refer to the nine dots puzzle, and some are an article referring to "thinking outside the box".

I'm glad you enjoyed the edit. Researching the "History" part of "think outside the box" I'm pleased with as well. That was main motivation originally, when I started editing. 'wɪnd (talk) 14:09, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Good points, I've now created a Wikidata entry at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q113516783 and moved the other-language wiki pages to it where their title is a literal translation of "nine dot puzzle". The other article titles are translations of "thinking outside the box", but if you want to take a look at them and make the call on whether they're more about the puzzle or the management jargon, feel free to remove them from one wikidata page and add them to the other: just click the "edit" links on the language boxes near the bottom of each article. --Lord Belbury (talk) 19:35, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

@Lord Belbury Sounds good. Thank you for your help. 'wɪnd (talk) 16:59, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Earliest Attested Source

The claim that management consultants introduced the phrase seems widespread, and also that it was in the context of the nine dots puzzle. However, I can find no reliable source for this.

The OED cites the weekly magazine of the US aviation industry - Aviation Week & Space Technology, from July 1975:

"We must step back and see if the solutions to our problems lie outside the box."

Are there any other earlier reliable accounts? Especially, connecting it to the nine dots puzzle and management consultants. 'wɪnd (talk) 22:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I found an earlier source. I updated and cleaned up the article. 'wɪnd (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2022 (UTC)