Talk:Thomas Beatie

A lot of issues with references

I don't have the time to put in all the work necessary, but we need some editors to go through the references and consolidate the duplicates. In some cases, the same entry uses different ref names, in other cases the name appears in a later reference and not the first instance. Easy stuff, but a bit time consuming. TechBear | Talk | Contributions 18:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Vague explanation

Hello,

The events seem very vague to me. Can someone explain if Thomas was born a male or female? and how did he get pregnant? etc, from biological point of view. There are lots of things talking about number of children and legacies but it does not seem very clear as to what biologically happened, and was the children from him and his wife or from something else, and did he become pregnant with his own womb, or did he implanted womb with surgery. I am not sure why these questions are not answered in simple way; the artice makes me confused :S 82.222.165.131 (talk) 13:02, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Please make sure you know exactly what any statement you say means. Taken literally, the statement that Thomas was born female implies that all people are born cisgender and that there are no natural transgender people. Georgia guy (talk) 16:00, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Going by what the IP stated, this article needs to be tweaked so that our readers are not confused. The vast majority of people do not understand transgender topics, and Wikipedia is meant for the general public. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Previous name

Given that most of the sources here at least reference Beatie's prior name, Tracy LaGondino, and that all Beatie's records in modeling as a teen use said name, is there a reason it's not in the article? In this case it doesn't need to be in the lead, but at the very minimum should be somewhere in the early life section. In addition to the name being well-sourced and relevant, although Thomas is very much a male name there are a few thousand women named Thomas; this could lead to at least some degree of confusion. And although subject preferences generally shouldn't mean much, in this case Beatie certainly doesn't hide it so mentioning it once doesn't do any harm. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:44, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@The Blade of the Northern Lights - I was going to remove this, but I saw this discussion. Per MOS:NB and the notice on this talk page, a trans/non-binary person's dead name should not be on the page, dabs, redirects, etc. if they weren't notable under their dead name. He seems notable as "the pregnant man" and the article was created after his pregnancy, so shouldn't the deadname be removed and the redirect deleted? CLYDE (TALK) @PING ME! 02:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I just want to second this - though I've been brought up to speed while reading this discussion as to why you want to consistently use Him - not mentioning that he was born with the name Tracy seems almost willfully confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.176.169.50 (talk) 11:07, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Given the overwhelming silence, I added it and retargeted Tracy LaGondino straight to the early life section. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 04:44, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

I've unbolded the name, given he wasn't really notable prior to transition, and given it's odd to bold something like that outside of the lead. I would also consider removing his old last name per WP:BLP's emphasis on privacy. Several published sources do mention it, but the majority don't, and his book Labor of Love doesn't seem to mention it either (the book does mention his old first name). WanderingWanda (talk) 09:00, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Makes sense, thanks. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 09:14, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

The problem with not including Beatie's full previous name is that, as noted above, Tracy LaGondino currently redirects here. Readers will be very confused if they run a search under that name and get to an article about what would at first appear to be a completely different person. It doesn't need to be bolded, but not including the name Tracy LaGondino at least once is, as the IP said above, almost willfully confusing. And again, Beatie freely shared this information, so (unlike many other similar cases) there's no privacy issue. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 06:53, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I wonder how many people are actually searching for his previous name but... the name does get a decent number of hits on Google News, and has been published in The New York Times, so fine, I'll go ahead and re-add it. WanderingWanda (talk) 07:19, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity

This individual was often identified by his dead name due to being attacked in a political manner. He would not have been a person of notice before his transition and therefore this would be against manual of style. I am removing the mention of the deadname. AevumNova (talk) 15:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Mm, I'd like to make the case for 1. The redirect just pointing to the top of the article. I think linking to a section is a little odd, because the whole article is about him. 2. Unbolding his former name. I don't think the name needs to be emphasized because he wasn't notable under it. And I'm just really not concerned about readers that might be searching for him under his old name, because I doubt there are that many. He was a model and stuff but not a notable one. WanderingWanda (talk) 09:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Revert

@Sangdeboeuf: Hi, I am wondering why you reverted changed his legal name and sex marker back to officially changed his name and sex. "Sex marker" (or "gender marker") is the recognised term for the legal record of one's sex/gender. This is a map-territory situation: the marker is intended to correspond to/model one's sex or gender, but sometimes may not. (E.g., Robert Lewis Dear was a male with a female marker due to paperwork errors, and Lauren Southern is female but obtained a male marker.) A change of legal marker doesn't effect (or necessarily reflect) a corresponding change in sex or gender. Cheers, gnu57 01:46, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

On Wikipedia, Sex marker redirects to Sex assignment, with no information about this specific term. It's a bit jargon-ish and really only makes sense when referring to the marker on a specific document. Even then, "changed his sex on his [passport/birth certificate/driver's license]" is easily understood by the general reader. Are there published sources that cover the documentation issue? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:50, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Charge

Not sure if we should cover this or not, it seems like coverage is light and mostly from tabloidy sources. Local news. NY Daily News. WanderingWanda (talk) 09:47, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

It's an odd situation; it was apparently a CNN wire story, but apart from a few tabloids and blogs, I can only find a couple local news stations reporting the story, and none from the local area where Beatie actually lives. Overall it seems to be a minor event and out of proportion to its significance in a biography. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:59, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

"Tracy LaGondino" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Tracy LaGondino has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 15 § Tracy LaGondino until a consensus is reached. {{ping|ClydeFranklin}} (t/c) 21:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)