Talk:Thomas Edison/Archive 5

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True that he never slept?

I read somewhere that he would only fall half-asleep for a while. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ykral (talk • contribs) 06:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

No he didn't. He just slept about 4-5 hour per night, less than average. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sulik (talk • contribs) 10:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

People who never sleep die within a few months. This did not happen to Edison, it is therefore reasonable to conclude he slept like other people. Edison's biography already reads like a love letter, but let's not get silly about it.75.54.85.188 (talk) 11:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Nonviolence?

The article includes "Nonviolence was key to Edison's moral views, and when asked to serve as a naval consultant for World War I, specified he would only work on defensive weapons and later noted, 'I am proud of the fact that I never invented weapons to kill.' Edison's philosophy of nonviolence extended to animals as well, about which he stated: 'Nonviolence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.'" " Caldicott may have the view that Thomas Edison opposed violence, even to animals, but this seems POV and flies in the face of his endorsement of the electric chair for executing convicted murderers, and the electrocution experiments conducted on numerous animals to show the effectiveness of electrocution, which clearly caused pain and death to the animals. His research in WW1 included methods of locating enemy submarines, which would result (if effective) in the destruction of the submarines by weapons on U.S. ships. Should this section be removed, or should opposing evidence be added for balance? Edison (talk) 18:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Minor typo

Small typo in the sentence: "AC electric currents, particularly near 60 Hz frequency, have a markedly greater potential for inducing fatal “Cardiac Fibrillation” that do DC currents"

I believe 'that should be 'than'.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Robostepper (talk • contribs)

Thanks. Changed "that" to "than." Edison (talk) 00:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Printing pages 5 and 6

Apparently, pages 5 and 6 do not print. 76.20.180.198 (talk) 01:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Edison gramophone museum in Korea

I visited a museum dedicated to gramophones and Edison's discoveries (including many of his failed/working lightbulbs). It is located in Gangneung, South Korea. It was a really great museum. This should be added to the museums section. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2008/12/203_31228.html

It should not be added unless/until it is notable enough to have its own WP page. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The webpage is located at: http://www.edison.kr/ Some of the exhibits are shown online, such as http://www.edison.kr/korean/contents/cyber/list.php?category=15 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.91.216.223 (talk) 08:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Occupation?

In the occupation section, it says that he's a "Person". Am I being naive, or is that not kinda weird?

Cheers 86.4.218.202 (talk) 21:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

It appears to be possible vandalism - you check. --64.5.15.136 (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

His occupations were "news butcher" (i.e boy merchant selling food and newspapers on the train), then "telegrapher," then "inventor," and "entrepreneur" although it would be an interesting and instructive piece or original research to see what occupation he listed on each of the decennial censuses. Also relevant is what occupation reliable sources ascribe to him. Edison (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I checked the 1930 census at Ancestry.com. In the listing for West Orange, NJ, he listed his occupation as "inventor." Sounds appropriate. Back in 1880 he listed his occupation in the census as "scientist." Also sounds appropriate, given that he presented his work on the "Edison effect" (the basis of later vacuum tubes) and "etheric force" (later called "radio") as well as the tasimeter for astronomical measurements around then. Reliable sources at the time considered him a scientist, an entrepreneur, and above all, an inventor. Edison (talk) 05:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Edison quote re solar energy

I recently placed the folowing quote at the end of our lead para:

“ I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that.” -- Edison, to his friends Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, 1931. ”

REF: Thomas Edison, Green Pioneer, New York Times, published June 3, 2007.

Editor Recoil42 reverted, commenting: "Quote is out of place, and obviously put there to forward an agenda. If you wanted an insiprational quote from Edison, there's much better to choose from."

I had no particular agenda, but it's an interesting and topical quote, impeccably sourced, and seems encyclopedic & appropriate for our article. Other opinions? TIA, Pete Tillman (talk) 19:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

The supposed quote is from the year he died, and he was quite ill much of the time. Is Firestone or Ford the source for the supposed quote, and what day is Edison supposed to have said it? There is nothing about solar power in the Conot or Baldwin biographies of Edison, although it is hard to prove a negative. A reliable source is needed besides the NY Times article. Lots of quotations have been created out of whole cloth. The NY Times reporter was not there in 1931. Plausible but unproven. Edison (talk) 01:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Conflicting information

According to this article, Thomas Edison died in 1931. However, according to the USPTO Patent Full-Text and Image Database, a patent that was Edison's according to the list of Edison patents here on Wikipedia was issued on May 16, 1933. 68.188.51.156 (talk) 20:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Grammatical Error

A grammatical error occurs in the first paragraph of the "Early Life" section, as follows:

He sold candy and newspapers on trains running from Port Huron to Detroit, as well as vegetables that he sold to supplement his income.

This is a faulty parallelism. The syntax leads us to wonder whether he sold vegetables on the trains, or elsewhere. The faulty parallelism can be fixed as follows:

He sold candy and newspapers on trains running from Port Huron to Detroit; he also sold vegetables to supplement his income.

OR, if he did sell vegetables on the trains:

To supplement his income, he sold candy, newspapers, and vegetables on trains running from Port Huron to Detroit.

OR, if it is known (where he sold vegetables), and that place is not on the trains:

To supplement his income, he sold candy and newspapers on trains running from Port Huron to Detroit, and vegetables (at the local marketplace). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silverstreak70 (talk • contribs) 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Not a vegetarian

I see that in this edit Betty Logan removed the category "American vegetarians" due to a lack of supporting references. I checked Google Books and found this 1908 biography that said when Thomas Edison felt "a little run down" after eating a lot of meat, he "turns vegetarian for a spell, returning to meat again when he finds it is necessary." So he should not be categorized as a "vegetarian." Maybe someone could find a ref that he later gave up meat entirely, but the proof is up to those making an assertion. He was 61 years old in 1908, so his most productive years were when he ate meat at least some of the time. Another source from 1913, when he was 66, said "Mr. Edison has almost entirely eliminated meats." "Almost" falls short of justifying the categorization. Edison (talk) 15:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Not a mathematician

Thomas Edison hired very capable college graduates who did sophisticated mathematical analysis. Francis Upton comes to mind, for one. Edison himself could do arithmetic just fine and kept close track of the finances of developing inventions, but I have not seen evidence he used algebra or calculus or other math beyond grade school teaching of the era. He had a lack of math ability in common with Michael Faraday. I felt the passage Despite the common belief that Edison did not use mathematics, analysis of his notebooks reveal that he was an astute user of mathematical analysis, for example, determining the critical parameters of his electric lighting system including lamp resistance by a sophisticated analysis of Ohm's Law, Joule's Law and economics. was misleading, so I modified it to say Despite the common belief that Edison did not use mathematics, analysis of his notebooks reveal that he was an astute user of mathematical analysis conducted by his assistants such as Francis Upton, for example, determining the critical parameters of his electric lighting system including lamp resistance by a sophisticated analysis of Ohm's Law, Joule's Law and economics. If the lab notebooks show him doing his own calculus, algebra, differential equations, or matrix algebra, I would be interested to see it. He tended to use physical understanding of the processes, and his assistants did the "ciphering." But the math whizzes did not have the physical understanding and insights which led to the phonograph, the practical light bulb, the "etheric force" which was an early discovery of radio wave transmission, or the carbon telephone transmitter. Edison (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Wondering why Edsion is so well remebered But tesla isnt?

As mentiuoned in the article Edsion regretted not recogzing the genius of Nikola tesla.However , there are Edsion museums. Not one for Tesla in the U.S.! Wondering why? Edsion certainl had better press then Tesla. But still ????Thanks! (Dr.Edson Andre' J.) Andreisme (talk) 23:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

There has been a growing movement for several decades to give more widespread recognition to the genius that was Tesla. He will not be forgotten.  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  02:37, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Edison was known as "The Wizard of Menlo Park" and was known as the inventor of the practical electric light bulb, the central power station to run lights and motors, the phonograph, and the motion picture camera. These were inventions the public could see and understand. Edison was a good publicist and knew how to get good press. In his later years,Henry Ford became his friend and built the Greenfield Village museum to honor him. He never went broke as Tesla did after he was talked into signing over in exchange for nothing his alternating current motor and generator patents to Westinghouse. (This is ignored when people claim Edison cheated Tesla out of a dubious $50,000 promise). The patents would have given Tesla 15 million dollars by the time they expired. The public viewed Edison as a rough and ready practical guy who was also an inventive genius. Tesla was viewed as a genius, but a recluse, a person with mental problems, and an eccentric loner. Both would give interviews on their birthdays in their old age. Edison would give his views on various social or scientific issues. Tesla would talk about amazing inventions such as death rays. Tesla's polyphase motor was very important, but to the average person it did not seem that different from the earlier DC motor. Tesla experimented with radio and with wireless remote control, and developed devices for producing high frequency-high voltage electricity which made impressive sparks. These were not as obviously important to the public as movies, phonographs and light bulbs. If Ford had been the close friend of Tesla, he might have built a Tesla Museum at Wardenclyffe, the Stanford White designed Tesla lab which still exists, but which is a possible candidate for demolition if the land is sold to developers by AGFA. Tesla gets very good coverage in alternate energy websites and in the movie The Prestige, and is acknowledged by the Tesla Motors electric car company. People have a desire to believe that Tesla was experimenting and inventing amazing science-fiction gadgets in his last years, but it may have been all or mostly big talk to give the reporters something to write about. Tesla was a pauper after about 1915, and an actual lab would have cost huge sums to operate. Industrialists like J.P. Morgan would give him nothing for building or operating a lab after his work at Wardenclyffe ended and the tower was blown up during WW1, and even the Westinghouse company would only give him about $300 a month to live on in his last years. He received lots of honors, but little money in his last years. Edison (talk) 20:38, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

For me, Tesla is definitely one of the lesser-sung heroes of electronics and invention. I had worked in the electronics field for several years before even hearing of him, and yet I'd heard of Edison when I was a little boy. Still, a little research can uncover many, many others who have made magnificent contributions to people, science and the world, and who are little-known or unknown. One I learned of recently was Orest Chwolson. Ever hear of him? He did major early work on the gravitational lens effect in cosmology. Yet most people associate his work with an Einstein paper that was far more widely read, yet published 12 years after Chwolson published. Who knows why it is that some great people are long-remembered, while other great ones are nearly or completely forgotten? Which is more important... what was done? or who did it? I guess I have a difficult time with this because I've never needed external recognition for my accomplishments. And I certainly would "roll over in my grave" after I'm gone if others tried to do to me what some people are doing to Tesla. Maybe he didn't need or want all that recognition, and Edison did want it and need it. Perhaps people ought to let Nikola Tesla rest in peace?  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  02:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Portrait

The newly added photo of Edison at the top of the article may be higher resolution and more carefully restored than the previously shown one, but I do not think it is as representative a likeness. It was taken when he was 75 years old, it is not the way people pictured Edison in his years of greatest inventive activity and greatest fame. The previous photo was taken at an earlier age and looks more like the likeness of Edison he placed on his products, such as the boxes cylinder phonograph records came in. In other words, this may be a fine photo technically, but there is more to illustrating a biography than just having the highest possible resolution photo. I suggest we return to the previous photo, or some other public domain photo from when he was in his 50's or 60's and was still inventing things like the disc phonograph, rather than when he was in his senescence. See [1], for instance, which is in the US government archives. Would it be usable? Edison (talk) 15:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC) he did not have 1,093 patents —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.68.229 (talk) 21:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Request that Edison Birthplace Museum be placed under the Museums and memorials

In Milan, Ohio, the Edison Birthplace museum is operated by the Edison Birthplace Association, Inc., a non-profit organization. The Edison Birthplace was opened by Edison's wife Mina and daughter Madeleine as a tribute to the man. The Edison Birthplace is the only Edison Museum that has Edison family involved. Calnut (talk) 18:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

If it isn't notable enough to have its own WP page, it probably shouldn't be included, lest it seem to be primarily promotion for the museum. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 18:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Image of Edison's birthplace

I copied an image from the Milan, Ohio article of Edison's birthplace. Here's the old image if anybody wants it: [[Image:HABS OHIO,22-MILA,1-1.jpg|thumb|Edison's birthplace]]  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine Ellsworth<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  20:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Edison, x rays - Fluoroscopy section

The following link, Edison, Clarence Dally, and the Hidden Perils of the X-Rays, that was used as a reference in the Fluoroscopy section is broken. I replaced it with another source.  ^{.`</sup>^) Paine<sup>diss`cuss} (^^`.  03:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

In the U.S. narrowed view, Edison is not only credited with X-Rays, but, accordingly to some mails I've got, with: cars, dynamo engines, paddle steamers, the first programming language, the tape recorder and whatsoever (apart from stealing patent information from Heinrich Goebel, the TRUE inventor of the light bulb). In Europe, Edison is widely known as what he was: an anti-semite. 84.141.22.192 (talk) 09:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Did you have any suggestions for improving the article, or did you just want to rant for a bit? Perhaps your anger has caused you to see things that are not there. What are these "U.S. sources" which credit Edison with inventing cars, paddle steamers, a programming language or the tape recorder? I have read dozens of books and hundreds of articles about him and have never seen any of those claims. Note that none of them have been in the article. Edison (talk) 21:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

minor addition

{{editsemiprotected}} Under “Work Relations” I would recommend adding: “Another of Edison's assistants at Menlo Park was William H. Mason, later the inventor of Masonite.” I am currently working on a Wikipedia page describing Mr. Mason. Thos. Edison thought highly enough of Mason that he gave him his work desk from Menlo Park; the desk has descended through heirs of Mr. Mason. ElijahBosley (talk) 15:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Not done: Welcome and thanks for wanting to improve this article. I tried to find a reference for this fact on the William H. Mason page, but that seems to be circularly linked to the disambiguation page for William Mason. I checked online briefly and found nothing helpful. Could you provide a reliable source for this fact or finish the William H. Mason page and someone can borrow a reference from there. Thanks again. Celestra (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

esta chido--Kariniuxis (talk) 03:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Sources needed to back up Edison

Much of this article seems extremely biased, trying to justify Edison's poor business and engineering practices and discrediting anyone who opposed them. <nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here<nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here^fffdfdfdb</nowiki></nowiki>A strong example is where Edison electrocuted animals with AC in an attempt to pass it off as being more dangerous than DC. It is indeed slightly more dangerous than DC, but the article overrated this safety so I had to make it more clear. There's also a claim at the start of that bit that says something like "Even though Edison was opposed to capital punishment, the campaign against AC led him to help develop the electric chair". The claim that he was opposed to capital punishment gives the article a biased slant and thus this claim requires proof if it is to be left there. If the source is just Edison saying something like "normally I'd be opposed to capital punishment, but I need to electrocute this criminal to show the dangers of AC", then that's not completely valid and the article should be changed to say that Edison "claimed" to be opposed to capital punishment. Owen214 (talk) 07:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There are some books which say Edison opposed capital punishment such as [2] and that he was "a lifelong opponent of it," preferring life imprisonment instead.. In a letter of December 19, 1887, Edison wrote "...I would join heartily in an effort to totally abolish capital punishment.." while stating that if the state demanded it, it should be done as humanely as possible. You can find many more reliable sources for Edison's opposition to capital punishment if you just go to Google Book search and search Edison "capital punishment." Do these satisfy your demand for a reference for his opposition to capital punishment? To make the article say that "he claimed to be against capital punishment, but really favored it" as you request. you need to find reliable sources that say that. Edison (talk) 17:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

A question about Edison and Tesla

Know the War of The Cureents section in article briefly mentions Edisons arch foe Nikola tesla(1856-1943) Along with George Westinghouses A.C. current systm. But herad the story and wonder if true. That Tels and Edsion became foes When tesla demanded from Edison a promiosed $50,000 bonus for Tesla improving the designs of Ediuson dynamos.True? Thanks!EvPMThursAug13,200921stcent.Dated EAJ"X"EDSONNTESLATSWIFTSR (talk) 05:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The only evidence for Tesla making vast improvements in Edison's dynamos/motors and being denied a promised $50,000 bonus, is in Tesla's memoirs decades later. Historians have cast doubt on the 50,000 because it was equal to decades of pay at the highest pay rate Tesla received from Edison. Nothing in the great volumes of paperwork in Thomas Edison's archives has been found so far to support it. Tesla had a small salary while working for and left when he was refused a raise. It is not that clear that they were "arch foes." After Tesla left Edison's employment, in the 1890's his lab burned, and he was offered lab space at Edison's lab. Tesla had some good things to say about Edison when Edison passed away, and Tesla received the Edison Prize from an electrical engineering society. Westinghouse talked Tesla into signing away millions of dollars in patent royalties for his AC motors, to save Westinghouse from bankruptcy. That part is well documented. Edison (talk) 13:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

typo

there is a typo in the marriages and children part:

On December 25, 1871, Edison married 16-year-old Mary Stilwell, whom he had met two months earlier as she was an employees at one of his shops. They had three children:

the word here "employees" should be changed to employee.

116.39.123.136 (talk)lol

Removed "only family member to get a degree" from entry on son Charles. According to the NY Times Obit [11 Aug 1937] on William Leslie Edison, he graduated from Sheffield Scientific (Yale) in 1900. I'm not certain this was a degree program (versus certificate) but it seemed best to credit them both with their education. Swango (talk) 22:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Deafness

Did you know that he was deaf? He missed a train and someone on the train grabbed him by the ear and he heard something crack. It's a true story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.189.177.87 (talk) 23:15, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

That anecdote is already in the article. It may or may not have caused the deafness. Edison (talk) 00:01, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Link to Prolific Inventors

I have just written an article titled "Prolific inventors" it is awsome and would like to add a link to it, but I am a new wikipedian The second paragraph of the article is: "Edison is considered one of the most prolific inventors in history, holding 1,093..." I would like to change that to: "Edison is considered one of the most prolific inventors in history, holding 1,093..." Could an established Wikipedian please make this change for me. Thanks.

AlexBartlett4 (talk) 15:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC) Now done AlexBartlett4 (talk) 03:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Nausea and disgust

That's what I felt aItalic textbout the men after I completed the reading of this article. It seem that he been manipulative, unscrupulous, greedy, self centerd and cruel person (especially what he done to animals)-probably he was sociopath. I think that the article show no reasonable extent of criticize about him, I'm sure it's not too hard to find reliable sources that do so.--Gilisa (talk) 08:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

This talk page is for discussing revisions to the article, not for general commentary about the subject like a blog, nor for presenting your original research or amateur psychological diagnoses. If you want to edit the article, find reliable sources and add them, while maintaining a neutral point of view and while not giving undue weight to any one thing, negative or positive. Edison (talk) 15:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

It was not a psychological diagnoses, at least wasn't intend to. And you are right, I know that the manner I choosed is totaly incompatibleoapologize for that. You can delete it if you like.--Gilisa (talk) 15:43, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

It is fine to discuss whether the article, overall, is balanced and WP:NPOV. It should not be a flattering puff piece, and it should not be an attack article. It could be compared to the coverage and tone of the bio in Britannica, for instance. Biographies of Edison contain instances of questionable ethics. The article already includes Tesla's dubious claim that Edison promised him $50,000 for unknown improvements to electrical equipment, which Edison failed to honor. Are you responding to Edison, or to the world he was part of? Biographies include coverage of his not giving credit to Armat for the movie projector (Edison's lab just invented a camera and 1 person movie viewer). Also W.K.L. Dickson was not given adequate credit for his work on the motion picture. Edison was a 19th century entrepreneur and not a person of the 21st century, and it may be POV to do other than judge his business practices in the context of how J.P. Morgan, Westinghouse, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Ford, Jay Gould and others of his era did business, how they were robber barons. Sheer greed (getting money for the sake of having money, buying expensive things, living well with mansions and yachts) does not appear to have been a driving force for Edison, compared to getting money to build bigger labs and to support more ambitious research programs. His assistants generally prospered and wound up running companies. He was a babe in the woods when he had business dealings with masters of the business world like J.P. Morgan, who took away his electric business. Robert Conot, "A streak of luck," page 226-227 notes how he ran through all available money on more experimenting. Edison and associates did fleece Jesse Lippincott of a million dollars or so when the prosperous manufacturer invested in phonographs (Conot p 267-269, 314-315). Compare that to Westinghouse conning Tesla out of $6 million in patent royalties for AC devices, or Alexander Graham Bell taking credit for Elisha Gray, telephone invention. Cruelty to animals? He grew up in the U.S. where slavery was legal, in a world where vivisection was common among scientists, and where animals were not considered to have similar rights to people. In his era species were exterminated to the best ability of repeating rifles, European countries practiced various cruelties toward natives in their colonies and hanging was commonly used to execute murderers and those who committed some other serious felonies. Edison opposed capital punishment. He backed Brown's proposal to use electrocution to replace hanging, because he opposed high voltage AC for safety reasons. Eventually the electric chair replaced the gallows, in almost all U.S. states except Utah, before there was a shift to poison gas and later lethal injection, which itself has had some dismal failures, as grim as the worst electric chair botch, with the condemned left conscious but unable to breathe. As Westinghouse said of the first electrocution, "An axe would have been kinder." Edison (talk) 18:23, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

== Mina Edison in the photograph == <33

Is mina edison mary or marion and whatever one it is it should be changed to prevent further confusion. EarthCom1000 (talk) 21:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Well that was the most stupid mistake I have ever made. I should read on a little in the future!!! EarthCom1000 (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)