Talk:Thompson Sound (New Zealand)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cam River (Canterbury) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 30 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Everyone is evenly split between the basename, parenthetical, and the dual name. Consensus to do any option is unlikely to form. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 15:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

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• Thompson Sound (New Zealand) → Thompson Sound
• Thompson Sound → Thompson Sound (disambiguation)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC by usage; looking at pageviews, we see that it is much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term; it receives four times as many views as the second most viewed articles, and 70% of the total views. The pageviews graph is inaccurate before December, as this article was moved in November. BilledMammal (talk) 10:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Oppose as proposed, but would support moving this page to Te Awa-o-Tū / Thompson Sound. I don't believe the page view data is as clear cut as the nominator makes it out to be, especially when view counts are so low. Looking at daily figures over the same period we see several days where either of the Canadian locations are receiving more views. We also see several days where the dual name of Te Awa-o-Tū / Thompson Sound is receiving the most views, no mean feat for a mere redirect. On that front, I'd note that when the dual name was the article's topic (prior to an undiscussed and unilateral move in November 2021) the current title received few, if any, hits, while since the change the dual name continues to be a strong showing – since January 2021, the dual name has received over twice the views of the current title. Given that the nominator has explicitly mentioned that the page should be at what a reader is searching for, it should instead be at the dual name. This would also alleviate any confusion with the Canadian locations and be a more fitting option per WP:NATURAL, though someone should really come up with a better way to disambiguate between the two Canadian articles... Turnagra (talk) 19:01, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

There are occasional fluctuations, but 70% of readers are looking for this article, and that is enough to make this the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC by usage.

The pageviews for the redirect are because most wikilinks still link there, not directly here, and the redirect shows more total views since January 2021 because the article was moved in November 2021. Oppose the alternative name, per WP:NZNC #3, WP:NATURALNESS, and WP:NATURAL, which requires that the used name is not obscure. BilledMammal (talk) 19:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm a bit concerned by your repeated assertions that names with Māori origins aren't natural, but setting that aside for a second, searching for Thompson Sound without the Māori name returns one relevant response in the first three pages – a newspaper from 1891. The dual name, by comparison, provides several pages of relevant results from research, maps, news, and travel pages – all of which is relevant and points to the dual name being anything but obscure. Turnagra (talk) 19:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Two names separated by a slash aren't natural, and your proposal also causes WP:RECOGNIZABILITY issues by leading with Te Awa-o-Tū rather than the WP:COMMONNAME.

Regarding your Google Search, I don't understand what you believe it demonstrates - and I note that four of the results on the first page of the dual name results are Wikipedia or Wikipedia mirrors, while the rest are either also unreliable or lack independence. BilledMammal (talk) 19:49, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Weak oppose - look at the numbers we're talking about. An average of one view per day versus one view every three or four days? The traffic simply isn't there for any page to really claim to be a major topic that warrants a lack of disambiguation. Sure, this article gets more of what hits there are, but were hardly talking about a huge ratio and a large number of hits. Oh, and oppose the double-name title. I've always been of the opinion that redirect pages fromt he less widely used name is a far more appropriate way of titling such articles - the double-title method hinders navigation. Grutness...wha? 00:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
• Weak support. The numbers do check out, and seem to support primary here, but I do find the historical data a little more jumbled than I'd like, especially through 2020 COVID times where the page was averaging lower than the other two. Simply taking the average pageviews since this page's inception still supports though: [1]. Note that even wholly excluding the 999 view month of Jan '19 as potentially non-representative still gives a view count higher than the other two combined (2974 – 999 > 954 + 834). I don't see this as a reasonable forum to suggest moving to a dual name, but I also oppose that idea on its own merit. — HTGS (talk) 23:00, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed, Support move to Te Awa-o-Tū / Thompson Sound. It is dubious whether it is the primary topic for Thompson Sound. Dual name is a WP:NATURAL way to disambiguate and meets all naming WP:CRITERIA. As Turnagra has noted, Te Awa-o-Tū / Thompson Sound seems to be the most commonly viewed name for the page anyway so make sense that page is there.ShakyIsles (talk) 01:25, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Grutness --Spekkios (talk) 03:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.