Talk:Three Blind Mice

Untitled

A parody I heard (like the one listed under Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) is:

Three visually impaired rodents Three visually impaired rodents Observe how they perambulate Observe how they perambulate They each pursued the agriculturist's spouse She severed their appendages with a carving utensil Ever in your life have you observed such a spectacle as Three visually impaired rodents

next time try a message board! 87.162.117.46 (talk) 10:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

another parody

Ok, this one is one I hammered out myself. I was inspired to make it one fine morning in 2003 when I stepped out with my mum and dad onto the front porch of our house in South America. We had 5 acres of land, which we used to graze a small herd of 15 sheep along with letting our neighbor graze his sheep there, and we set out water in great tubs for the sheep to drink. Two rodents had fallen in overnight and, because the walls were so sheer, couldn't get out. We all thought the resulting sight was hilarious, and within 10 minutes I had thought out this:
Two drowned mice!
Two drowned mice!
See how they float!
See how they float!
They only wanted some water to drink
They never thought they were going to sink
And now they really are going to stink
They're two drowned mice!
Wareq

Weasel words

Please fix this. Weasel terms in italics.

There is much speculation as to whether this song was written originally as a protest against the U.S. Government, each mouse representing a branch of government. No solid evidence exists to prove or disprove this theory.

— Stevey7788 (talk) 21:10, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh please, this song is so much more than 210 years old! Wareq

Older. It was a popular tune in France. F. Josef Haydn included it in Symphone no. 83 (last movement), written during 1785-86. From my understanding its origins are from England about 1555 or shortly after.

Verify Facts

I'm moving these to the talk page until someone can actually verify them.

The song has been banned from many ice hockey leagues, because it used to be played after a bad call by one of the three on-ice officials.

There is much speculation as to whether this song was written originally as a protest against the U.S. Government, each mouse representing a branch of government. Considering it was published by Thomas Ravenscroft nearly 180 years prior to the writing of the U.S. Constitution, it is most certainly untrue.

If you can provide verification, then they can be put back in. --THollan 21:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I found some good refs for the poem's use in sports, but as for the US Gov. I don't know of any. Wrad 19:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Midi file

can someone put a midi file here? so we can listen to it. Jackzhp 23:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I have a mp3 of me singing the round with myself at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ravenscroft/songbook/three_blinde.html, I'd be happy to contribute it. Greg 02:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Citation needed?

However, the earliest lyrics don't talk about killing the three blind mice, and are dated after Queen Mary died.[citation needed]

I take this as referring to the previous text (quotation of earliest recorded verse), not advancing a new fact and hence not needing a citation.--Jack Upland 11:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

This sentence got deleted at some point in the last decade, even though it's supported by a direct quote from the first known source of the round. I added it back in. -- Greg (talk) 04:40, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Melody Recycled in a Sesame Street Song

The "Three Blind Mice" melody was heard again in the Sesame Street song, "B Is for Bubble." 66.191.115.61 16:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Cbsteffen

Appearance in Babe

In the Babe movie (1995) the three blind mice also make their appearance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.251.121.213 (talk) 18:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Quartet by Weiss

Thomas Oliphant attributes the tune of the song of Three Blind Mice to an instrumental Quartet by Weiss. Can anyone confirm the quartet, and whether it is Sylvius Leopold Weiss--Citeseer (talk) 18:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Turns out it's only 3 descending notes, which is really not even interesting or unique. But it's now fully cited in the article. To me it's only interesting in that that's what Oliphant associated with that 3 note phrase, but not as proof that Weiss was thinking of 3 Blind Mice. -- Greg (talk) 04:46, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Lennon

John Lennon used the melody of Three Blind Mice on the song My Mummy's Dead. Also, some have suggested that All You Need is Love was based on Three Blind Mice. ^^James^^ (talk) 19:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The Complete Version of Ye Three Blind Mice

Frederick Warne & Co. published an illustrated children's book by John W. Ivimey entitled The Complete Version of Ye Three Blind Mice, in which Ivimey fleshes the mice out into mischevious characters who seek adventure, have run-ins with an inn-keeper, and are taken in by a farmer, whose wife subsequently chases them from the house, blinding them and removing their tails in the process. The penitent mice seek out a doctor for help, learn a trade, and settle down to a productive life. The story begins,

Three Small Mice

Three Small Mice

Pined for some fun

Pined for some fun

Pined for some fun

They made up their minds to set out to roam;

Said they,"'Tis dull to remain at home,"

And all the luggage they took was a comb,

These three Small Mice.

There's no copyright date that I can find, but Ivimey was born in 1868, and the book is now public domain. It can be obtained from Project Gutenberg here. CNJECulver (talk) 04:11, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Are you suggesting putting it as an external link? If so I think it would be fine.--SabreBD (talk) 06:36, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Added to the article. -Gohst (talk) 11:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I added a note to this section that the earliest-known lyrics (1609) don't mention tails being cut off. The 1842 version is not the original! Greg (talk) 18:33, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Schumann citation and other classical ones dubious.

I consider some of the statements in this article that various classical pieces use this theme to be rather dubious.

The most questionable one, to my mind, is this:

Robert Schumann's Kreisleriana #7, which is arguably about a cat (Murr), appears to be based upon "Three Blind Mice", but in a predominantly minor key. "Three Blind Mice" is to be found in the fugue which is the centerpiece of #7.

I've just been to http://imslp.org/wiki/Kreisleriana,_Op.16_(Schumann,_Robert) and examined the score for this work by Schumann, and I cannot see any more resemblance to "Three Blind Mice" anywhere in this work than a 3-note motif which recurs a number of times, corresponding to the first three notes of "Three Blind Mice". A simple descending motif based on the first three notes of a scale is such a common occurrence in music that I consider it highly dubious to say that it is based on, or includes, "Three Blind Mice", despite the fact that that tune begins with those same three notes. I cannot see a fugue anywhere in "Kreisleriana", let alone in movement 7. If anyone knows where I can find this fugue, and knows of anything in the composition that resembles "Three Blind Mice" more closely than a mere three notes, it might be good if they could include it in the article (I suppose I may have overlooked it in the score), since, without citing the details, I regard this as an unfounded statement. I would be tempted to remove it, but consider it best to mention it here instead, in case anyone wants to comment on it or in case they can find evidence in Schumann's composition to substantiate the statement.

Some of the other classical references are really no better. The Rachmaninov Concerto example is simply those same three notes appearing at the start of the theme (slightly altered with a couple of extra intervening notes); it then goes on in a completely different direction to "Three Blind Mice". Also, this movement is slow and lugubrious, in contrast to the fast tempo of "Three Blind Mice", and that further distances it from any resemblance.

I also looked at the score for the Haydn Symphony no. 83 ("La Poule"), and I could find only one bar (which recurs a number of times in much the same form) which resembles about 9 notes of "Three Blind Mice" (the fast bit which starts on the highest note nearly half-way through), although Haydn's version is not exactly the same and introduces a few extra notes. I think you need to use rather more than 9 notes of a tune in a composition before you say the composition "includes" the tune.

For the scores I've examined (or already know, in the case of the Rachmaninov Concerto), I am pretty satisfied that the composers were not at all thinking of "Three Blind Mice", and the resemblance (3 notes, 9 notes) is accidental - a pure coincidence. Unless I've overlooked something in the scores, I consider these claims to be completely without evidence. On this basis, would I be justified in deleting the references in the article? I would be interested in any opinions on this.

(For what it's worth, I know classical music very well, and I am not aware of any classical composition at all that so resembles "Three Blind Mice" that I think it would be reasonable to say the composer intended it, and that the classical composition "includes" this tune - except for a couple of compositions by Joseph Holbrooke which I've never heard, but which I've read are based on this tune - presumably in full.) M.J.E. (talk) 16:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Other Version i head on a old Dr. Dolittle record

Three blind mice. Three blind mice.
See how they run. See how they run.
They all ran after the farmer's wife,
She cuted off their tails with a carving knife,
Did you ever see such a sight in your life,
As three blind mice?[2]

THE MOUSE-TRAP

Must add reference to The Mousetrap in this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.76.98.98 (talk) 20:26, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

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what is the meaning of scrapte, tripe, and licke thou?

what does: she scrapte her tripe licke thou the knife mean? seems to mean she scratched her "but" like with a knife?

It should be listed in the article, since later it says, "as can be seen above..." but if one (like me) does not understand what the last line reads, they (we) cannot "see", and therefore are like 3 blind mice.פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 07:11, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Old-fashioned spellings of "scraped" and "lick". Tripe is still current. 2.24.113.169 (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Inviting you on an adventure!

Are you reading this right now? Wow! Somehow you got here, and now where could you go. Here are some ideas, just off the top of my head:

I’m Dr Mel the Squid Lady, longtime Wikian at Large, bringing a wikiWackyWonderland to the party.

Station 3. Three Blind Mice. Want to SEE how they run?

Message me for more details.

special grateful shoutouts to everyone who made this page what it is today, it’s beautiful!! Born so many years ago, ever evolving, like the growing collection of human knowledge does.

Stories to explore. With 3 blind mice.

Nice to meet you! You’re invited to the Unbirthday Tea Party. Message me for your first Mission...

DrMel (talk) 21:33, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

ps Yes, it is a very weird year. Come find me. Ask me about Pinecones and the Three Blind Mice and I’ll give you a puzzle. Send me a link to this page for extra points. DrMel (talk) 21:44, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Source reference

Referring to my comment on the "view history". The source is [4] when I left the visual editing view (was [3] when I was editing). This link. Danial Bass (talk) 11:22, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Quote is wrong

The 1900's book referenced is currently available in the “classic books” section of read.gov. I read it and know that there is no butcher’s wife in this version. 2001:5B0:270C:AC48:F4FD:8FAC:25AA:11D3 (talk) 13:32, 3 April 2023 (UTC)