Talk:Tigray Defense Forces/Archive 1

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Strong national ties to a topic

See also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers § Strong national ties to a topic, and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Unit choice and order

An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the (formal, not colloquial) English of that nation. For example:

• Afrikaners (South African English)
• American Civil War (American English)
• Australian Defence Force (Australian English)
• Christchurch (New Zealand English)
• Dublin (Irish English)
• Great Fire of London (British English)
• Mayon (Philippine English)
• Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Pakistani English)
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For topics with strong ties to Commonwealth of Nations countries and other former British territories, use Commonwealth English orthography, largely indistinguishable from British English in encyclopedic writing (excepting Canada, which uses a different orthography). --09:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle

MikiSollo: It's rather disappointing that you did not bother to read (or perhaps did not understand or decided to flout) the relevant English Wikipedia policy summarised above and instead perpetrated this edit warring again.

In some of your edit summaries you stated: "Tigray uses American English and uses Defense (spelled with an “s”), Defense is the American spelling and has an “S” in it.". Do you have any reliable sources to support that contention?

More importantly, since neither Ethiopia as a whole nor Tigray in particular are generally regarded as English speaking countries (MOS:TIES), how are your edit summaries relevant to unilaterally changing the language variety of this article that I started?

Since Tigray Defence Forces is a proper noun phrase, why shouldn't we use the correct name that is used by the organisation itself ?

I see that you are currently editing, so if you fail to address these points I may have to invoke relevant administrative procedures if you neither address these points nor self revert.... --08:35, 24 August 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle

What the hell are we doing here?

Please stop shifting this article up and down for sake of S or C! Article was originally written in British English; so let us keep it like that and focus on contents.Rastakwere (talk) 09:23, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@BushelCandle: and @Rastakwere: Here's from the Spokesperson of the Government of Tigray himself using the American Spelling of 'Defense' on his Twitter page (verified) on his post from Nov 15, 2020

Link: twitter.com/reda_getachew/status/1327874109355778059

And on the official statement of the Government of Tigray released on Tigrai Media House - TMH Twitter Page, July 02, 2021

Link: twitter.com/Tmhtvnews/status/1410973905662234626

Also on the The New York Times articles

Article 1: www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/29/world/tigray-ethiopia.amp.html

Article 2: www.nytimes.com/2021/07/11/world/africa/tigray-guerrilla-fighers-ethiopia-army.html

In Ethiopia (Tigray is still in the federation) everyone from grades K-12 is taught American English, all the teaching materials/ text books and teacher guides for American English Language Learning are produced and provided by the United States of America through USAID in collaboration with Ethiopian MoE, the program/ initiative is called 'English For Ethiopia'.

And a bit of a history lesson, Ethiopia was never colonized. MikiSollo (talk) 03:23, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Obviously I read different history journals to you...

(I'm still researching your substantive point about self-naming and so far can not find reliable, non-Twitter, sources for your assertions.) --05:16, 27 August 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle

@BushelCandle: There's no reason for you to edit the spelling of Defense in the name of the Tigray Defense Forces in Defence Forces list or any other page. It's what they call them selves and you can not change their official American spelling. You doing that is like changing the ENDF and IDF (Israel Defense Forces) name as well, both use American spelling. MikiSollo (talk) 15:39, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

@BushelCandle: You've been given many credible source citation (The NY Times) as well as the original source The Government of Tigray/ TPLF spokesperson Getachew Reda and Goverment of Tigray press release using the American spelling of 'Defense' used by TDF and yet you still chose to ignore those facts. You can not change the official name of a force by creating your own fictitious language variation spelling. This is not up for discussion anymore, refrain from vandalizing pages. MikiSollo (talk) 05:51, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@BushelCandle: Here are additional credible source citations for the American Spelling of 'Defense' in Tigray Defense Forces name:

1. www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/08/09/dangerous-trends-in-ethiopia-time-for-washingtons-tough-love/

2. jamestown.org/program/tigray-defense-forces-resist-ethiopian-army-offensive-as-sudan-eritrea-and-ethnic-militias-enter-the-fray/

3. nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/could-tigray-defense-force-invade-eritrea-189878 MikiSollo (talk) 06:10, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Obviously there is American English in US publications :) . I would love to see a strong source stating that Ethiopia officially uses American English. I have never seen that. Do also not forget that after the Italians, Hailesillase came back to power with the help of the British and that there was strong British influence for some decades.Rastakwere (talk) 06:30, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@Rastakwere: This is not about language variation/ difference/ preference/ usage anymore. Their official name is 'Tigray Defense Forces', with the American English language spelling of 'Defense' and that's what's going to be used.

Use Israel Defense Forces and Ethiopian National Defense Force for comparison, both use American English and American English language spelling of 'Defense'. MikiSollo (talk) 06:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

@BushelCandle: and @Rastakwere: Here are additional credible source citations for the American Spelling of 'Defense' in Tigray Defense Forces name:

1. www.arabnews.com/tags/tigray-defense-forces

2. www.thejakartapost.com/paper/2021/07/13/rebel-forces-in-ethiopias-tigray-launch-new-offensive.html MikiSollo (talk) 04:04, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Defeated deletion proposal

Interested editors might like to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tigray Defence Forces#Tigray Defence Forces --BushelCandle 10:41, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

(My comment, preserved above, was my original reaction to the deletion proposal of 3 May 2021. --08:20, 23 August 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle)

The entire structure (leaders, commanders, supporters, flag) of the "TDF" is exactly the same as that of the TPLF. There is absolutely no difference between the two. Further a defence force is meant to represent the force of an independent country. Tigray is not an independent country but a region in Ethiopia. Ericandude (talk) 05:29, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2021

LEKReports (talk) 19:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Could i edit this page and add more information Thanks

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Terasail II^[✉️] 19:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Nothing quite like a good double reply. Terasail II^[✉️] 19:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Deletion / Edit of Page

The entire existence of this page should be put into question. The idea that Tigray has a defence force is a complete farce. A defence force is meant to represent the armed wing of an independent country, Tigray is not an independent country, nor have their leaders tried to obtain it. The "TDF" is merely the TPLF in disguise, and has used the term TDF as a way to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the international community. Ericandude (talk) 05:26, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source for your assertion that "A defence force is meant to represent an independent country" ?

I think you really mean "A defence force is meant to represent an independent state" since my definition of a country approximates to a defined territory that regards itself as a nation because of its distinctive language and/or culture and/or history and/or legal system and/or politics and symbols. States and countries are not synonymous and often countries have to fight for both their very existence and nationhood - Ireland, Scotland and Eritrea are historical examples... --05:55, 24 August 2021 (UTC) BushelCandle

So what if the Tigray Defense Forces aren't technically a "defense force?" Its what the group calls itself and what most reliable sources call it. We can't just be going around to change or delete a page because their name doesn't fit in with the definition of something. It would be like changing the Allied Democratic Forces to "Allied Islamic Forces" because they aren't democratic. Also, I think we might need a source to back up your claim the TDF is the TPLF in disguise because its truly not. Its headed by some of the same people because it's meant to be a combination of TPLF forces along with Tigray Special Forces, Local militants, and other Tigray party members. Also, I got a source right here showing a whole new definition [1] Wowzers122 (talk) 01:24, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

It was obviously mistyped. What I meant to say, is that a defence force is meant to represent the armed forces of a country. Tigray is not a country and therefore the name "Tigray Defence Force" is not indicative of the armed wing of the TPLF. Here is a source alluding to that: "https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/defence-forces"

Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2021

War crimea TDF has been under international condemnation after telegraph rrleased reports on Aug 17. 2021 backed by satellite image of burned towns in Amhara region. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/17/revenge-evidence-war-crimes-rebels-roar-ethiopias-tigray-region/

TDF crossed to neighbouring regions of Amhara and Afar is causing displacement of civilians in hundreds of thousands. UNICEF report showed that more than 200 civilians were killed by TDF in which 107 of them were children.

https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-executive-director-henrietta-fore-reported-killing-hundreds The recent TDF crimes against civilians has tarnished its image. Even International and regional analyst that sympathize with TDF expressed their concern about this crimes. MrFil777 (talk) 21:17, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:22, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 Se

Miko Mikeye (talk) 15:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Tigray Rebels force It is an anti-government force that has launched an offensive against the Ethiopian Defense Forces since November 3, 2020, sparking a long-running conflict between Ethiopians and this rebel group. The group has also been branded a terrorist by the Ethiopian government. Miko Mikeye (talk) 15:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

all the detail resources are from media's that governed by TPLF like TMH . in this article they never described what they have done in maikadra, to Eritrean Refugees in tigray or the atrocities they have done in afar. highly biased information. 85.145.110.29 (talk) 13:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2021

Leadership,

Brigadier General Migbe Haile is Commander of Army 1.

Major General Yohannes W/giorgis ("Medid") is Commander of Army 2.

Brigadier General Haileselassie Girmay ("Wedi embeytey") is Commander of Army 3.

Brigadier General Teklay Ashebir ("Wedi Ashebir") is Commander of Army 4. Hydro belt (talk) 05:54, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:07, 25 September 2021 (UTC)