Talk:Tim Morehouse

Jewish?

The only sources I've seen for this are JTA and the like, which get way too many things wrong for comfort. Googling it, his parents, Eloise and John Morehouse, are listed on a lot of Presbyterian websites, so I think some kind of explicit explanation/good source is needed here. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 16:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Ah, this helps explain it. His maternal grandmother was a German Jewish immigrant (refugee, really) who later joined the Quakers. He says he was raised in with a "mixture" of religions. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 16:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Jewish? Jewish! Every source gets things wrong, and the JTA is a clearly reliable and verifiable source. The article in Chutzpah Magazine (notice the red link) states that "Much of his sense of determination is inspired by his Jewish heritage. His maternal grandmother and two of her sisters escaped from Germany in the mid-1930s." and quotes him as stating that “My middle name, Frank, is the last name of my Jewish heritage. My sense of being Jewish comes from my awareness of my grandmother’s courage and determination to live in the face of enormous difficulties.” He may be other things too, but the source establishes a self-description of being Jewish. Alansohn (talk) 16:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I am not talking about the categorization of him as Jewish in the categories or elsewhere, a topic I have generally given up on and refrain from commenting about unless it's blatantly obvious one way or the other. I'm just saying the article text is probably good as I left it now, unless further information comes in. Oh, the text you added is fine too. Probably excessive, but again, at least it's accurate. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 16:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

• I agree with Alansohn here. This is pretty straight-forward. The JTA is a clearly reliable and verifiable source.Epeefleche (talk) 19:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
  • You need to stop with these edits. The article was fine as is. Morehouse's own words and interview best illustrate what is going on here. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 21:12, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
    • BTW, if you're going to start a fight to keep this random addition, "Morehouse, who is Jewish", in the article, despite the near-paragraph that accurately illustrates what is going on that follows, I'm going to start a fight over deleting the "Jewish" categories, even though I don't actually disagree with them. It appears that I can't simply edit in the way I believe is right, but rather I have to be be a tactician, and pick the most extreme position possible that's closest to mine. That way, you will have to meet me in the middle. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 21:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
• I agree with Alansohn. The sourcing is perfectly appropriate for the statement. And as we know, the Maccabiah Games are not open to non-Israeli non-Jews. In any event, the sources support the statement, and AH is the only editor with his lone view who is seeking to edit against consensus here.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:05, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
  • That's right. I will edit against consensus - on purpose - until I am blocked, permanently, from editing Wikipedia. I think it's about high and time for that. In a couple of seconds, I may also be blocked for personal attacks, Epeefleche. That's not far away at all. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 22:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
    • Oh, btw. It's pretty simple, Epeefleche. Here's my ultimatum to you: either you revert yourself as soon as you're able, or I'll simply name-drop Tim Morehouse at the BLP messageboard. At that point, every BLP extremist known to mankind will come over here and delete - I would guess - most of the text - and the categories will certainly go - no question about that last part. AndyTheGrump, Collect, John, Bbb23, etc., every last one of them will then swarm over this page. So if I were you, I wouldn't push your luck here. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 22:29, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
      • AHW, I agree that the article was probably fine as modified, but the extra sources are just a lagniappe and there's no reason to delete them. Given Wikipedia's perpetual goal of trying to reach consensus, we never get to "simply edit in the way [we] believe is right". While there is room for improvement, the tactic of going out to "pick the most extreme position possible that's closest to mine. That way, you will have to meet me in the middle" is basically rather WP:POINTy. Do what you think is right because you actually believe that's what it should be, make your best case for it on talk pages, but recognize that you can't always get what you want when consensus doesn't go your way. These threats are just as disruptive as the canvassing to have other editors do the disrupting on your behalf. Alansohn (talk) 22:32, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
        • Alansohn, this isn't about extra sources. This is about the statement "Morehouse, who is Jewish, is the son of Eloise and John Morehouse". That now precedes the version we seem to have agreed to. The statement itself seems disruptive and misleading, but my biggest problem is that it's unnecessary given the large swath of text that follows and explains the situation in detail (not to mention since the line "sense of being Jewish" is already there anyway). All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 22:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
          • Agree w/Alan. The statement alluded to reflects the sources. The amplification is just that -- an amplification. Having both is encyclopedic, appropriate, true to the sources, and parallel to normal treatment of such matters on wp ... we don't delete "x is y", just because we have amplification on y.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:46, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
            • Epeefleche, when the 3rr whatever expires tomorrow, I am going to revert this again. If you revert me, I will, as I said, simply drop the name of this, and probably many of the other articles you muck around with, at the BLP noticeboard. At that point, I suspect there are going to be a whole lot of changes to these articles that you will not be pleased with. Right now, you're dealing with a very, very, very, reasonable person who frankly is probably way too obsessed with including ethnicity and religion in articles (that person would be me). That is a friend of yours, not an enemy. You should be grateful I am here, instead of trying to piss me off every chance you get. The people at the BLP board, however, do not share my very moderate views. Like I said, take it or leave it. By the way, I'm not sure what you're agreeing with Alansohn on. I could be wrong, but I did not see him support your recent addition of text, nor was that addition among the text Alansohn added to the article this morning, which me and him seemed to have agreed to. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 06:10, 27 July 2012 (UTC)