Talk:Timothy Gallwey/Archive 1

Source

Gallwey was a member of the Divine Light Mission of Guru Maharaj Ji. Can someone provide the text of the source from which that statement is derived? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 22:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

2 PM: The Lord Incarnate is flying into Houston's Hobby Airport from the West Coast sometime this afternoon, and thousands of devotees are gathering there to greet him. I drive to Hobby with a thirty-four-year-old premie tennis pro who has been national hard court champion of the United States, and was captain of the Harvard Tennis Team in 1960. Tim Galloway is a handsome, thoughtful, gentle man with cornflower blue eyes. He immediately launches into an explanation of how Divine Knowledge has totally transformed his game of tennis. The Guru's meditation technique, he says, has given him such powers of concentration that he can receive service from the strongest opponent one foot behind the service line, with a half-volley.

'It totally reverses the Big Game,' he says modestly. 'There I am already in mid court, so I easily beat the server to net, and the next shot is a put away. The whole principle of meditation is to slow down inner time. People think too much when they play, they're always talking to themselves, the ego is telling the unconscious nervous system what to do. The point is to obliterate the difference between the teller and the doer, make the ego and the unconscious one. I've also devised an underhand serve which bounces off at almost a 90 degree angle to the flight of the ball….' Tim Galloway's book, Inner Tennis, which he wrote after receiving Knowledge, will be published by Random House this spring.

I ask Galloway how he had come to believe Maharaj Ji was God.

'When I first heard him my only approach was to say to myself, He's either the real thing or a con artist.' Well the first times I saw him he just did too bad a job as a con artist. A good con artist wouldn't wear a gold wrist watch or give such stupid answers. When I was staying with him in India I once asked him how much time I should spend on work and how much on meditation and he just said get up an hour earlier and go to bed an hour later, hardly a profound answer. I decided that if he was doing such a bad job of being a holy man he simply had to be genuine.'

'Did it ever occur to you that he might be a bad con man?'

'Then how could he have six million followers?' the tennis pro replied.

Per your request. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 23:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

That source does not describe Gallwey as a "member of the Divine Light Mission". You will need to find a better way to present that material. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've added a second source where he says he was living in an ashram. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Something along the lines of In 1960, Gallwey was captain of the Harvard Tennis Team, and later stated stated that the meditation techniques of Guru Maharaj Ji (Prem Rawat), gave him such powers of concentration that improved his game - We can then bridge that material into the other aspects that make this person notable: the authorship of "The Inner Game of Tennis" ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

A sentence like that would be too much synthesis. It's better to treat it as a separate topic and let readers connect the dots. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The notability of this person is related to his authorship of the Inner Game books. The text you edited still does not work. The sources does not describe Gallwey to have "joined the Divine Light Mission of Guru Maharaj Ji (Prem Rawat) in 1971". I will give it a shot.≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The NYT says he met the guru in 1971. TIME describes him as a a former follower of Guru Maharaj Ji ,[1] so we should add that fact too. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see he wrote in to correct the magazine, stating that he was a current follower.[2] ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

We can also add that the Inner Game of Tennis was dedicate to his parents and the guru. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

We can do that, although I am not sure it adds value. Your call. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:30, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It's an indication of its importance to the notability of the subject. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure. I have no objection. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Tim Gallwey was dark and slender and had been on the Harvard tennis team; he had been involved in Moral Re-Armament and had a flash of enlightenment with the 15-year-old Guru Maharaj Ji.

From Sports Illustrated.[3] ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

We have already a source for that fact. Do we need another one? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:30, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

We don't have another one for his involvement in Moral Re-Armament. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 02:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting... I did not know that. Is there a better source that Sports Illustrated? Or at least one that can give us some dates about that affiliation? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Up with People related to Moral Re-Armament? Gallwey is listed as a former member of Up with People. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Agent

• Gallwey's literary agents are New York's Dystel & Goderich.

I don't recall seeing another author's bio that lists his agent. It seems a bit commercial. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 03:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

OK. It can be removed. What I found interesting on that page is his work on "managing and relieving chronic stress". ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• ..is described as having "changed the way we think about learning and coaching."[4]

This appears to be anonymous advertising copy. Do we know who wrote this text? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Removed. I will be adding other material from other authors that refer to Gallwey's work. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 14:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Great. There's no question that the subject is a notable author/commentator/coach. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 09:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you doing this....

... in purpose to bait me in reverting this silly edit? I think that you are crossing a line you should better not. You may want to consider self-reverting. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 05:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It was weird to make the subject's connection to Maharaj Ji in the 1970s part of a sentence on 1960. Why is the edit that fixes it silly? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Silly because this is an article about Timothy Gallwey, and despite the fact that he seems proud of his association with Maharaji, the sentence now mentions: "Guru Maharaj Ji", "Prem Rawat", "Maharaj Ji" twice, and "leader of Divine Light Mission". Silly, tendentious, call it what you want. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Your complaint doesn't seem to address the current version. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

In the 1970s he learned the the meditation techniques of Guru Maharaj Ji (leader of the Divine Light Mission) that Gallwey said enhanced his powers of concentration in a manner that improved his game.[2] In an interview Gallwey gave to the New York Times in 1973, he described his discovery of Maharaj Ji in 1971, and his decision to live in an ashram and practice celibacy.[3] He dedicated The Inner Game of Tennis to Maharaj Ji.[4]

there.... ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I've replaced the middle "Maharaj Ji" with "the guru" to address you concern about repeating the name. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I see, Will. You have made up your mind about this, and have decided to editwar to accomplish it. Your choice. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

• 1st addition of Divine Light Mission, which is unnecessary in this article [5]
• Second addition in another form, after I raised a concern [6]
• 3rd addition [7]

≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 20:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

What's your concern about the DLM? I'd thought your concern was the repetition of the name (which was there from your edits in May). ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Forget it, Will. I have no confidence in your ability to take my points seriously. I will not edit war with you, it is below my dignity. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

If discussing edits with other editors is below one's dignity then Wikipedia is not a good project to be involved in. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:14, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Discuss, yes. Looking for common ground, yes. Finding suitable compromises, yes. Edit-warring, no. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 21:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

• So, is there anything you'd like to discuss about this article? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure. I do not think that adding "leader of the Divine Light Mission" is necessary, and the sentence can be shortened. This is what would work:

In 1960, Gallwey was captain of the Harvard University Tennis Team. In the 1970s he learned the the meditation techniques of Guru Maharaj Ji, which Gallwey said enhanced his powers of concentration in a manner that improved his game. In a 1973 New York Times article he described his discovery of Maharaj Ji and his decision to live in an ashram and practice celibacy. In 1997, Gallwey dedicated his book, The Inner Game of Tennis, to him.

≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 02:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The name of the organization is sourced and relevant. Add it to your proposal and that'd be fine. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Unneeded. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 05:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Needed. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 10:07, 21 June 2008 (UTC)