Talk:Tolpuddle Martyrs

Secret Society ??

Did the Martyrs keep their "Friendly Society" secret? Evidently not, since they were caught. But did they make any effort to keep their society secret? None that I'm particularly aware of. They may not have shouted out a manifesto, punctuated with trombone practice, from the roof of the village church nightly between sunset and midnight ; but does that discretion mark them as being a secret society?
I'm (proudly) a member of a Trade Union active in one of the most vigorously subjugated industries in my country, (due to a preponderance of exiled septic rednecks in the industry ; I make sure that I know who I'm talking to before I try proselytizing on workers rights, but I don't disguise or deny my activities, my affiliations, or my opinions. I've only been thrown off the job twice. I don't see myself as being a member of a seditious secret society (the logos on my briefcase and on my hard-hat aren't exactly secret), and I don't think the Tolpuddle Martyrs are relevant for inclusion as a secret society either.
I've rearranged the header templates to reflect their level of relevance, and to bring the WikiProject Secret Societies template adjacent to this comment. Aidan Karley (talk) 18:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Other uses

The talk page here doesn't look particularly robust so I won't hold my breath for a reply, but anyways: I am from London, Ontario and I once worked at the central library downtown. The old lady I worked for called the large, open, paved area behind the library “the tolpuddle” --- I have not been able to find confirmation that this is a local appellation, a regional usage, etc. She said it got the name from the Tolpuddle martyrs, and seemed to imply that any large area intended for public discourse and union activities was a “tolpuddle.” Has anyone ever heard of this? —Muckapædia 15h06, 30e Août 2006 (EST)

I've never heard that. Wasn't the area behind the library just a parking lot? Adam Bishop 19:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard that usage either, checked a couple of dictionaries (including the OED) and they do not mention it. DuncanHill 09:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

In 1969 a small park known as the the Labour Memorial Park behind Centennial Museum on Queen Street was dedicated, and was known as the "Tolpuddle Pad". This was immediately east of the Central Library. A wee commemorative service was held there every labour day. From 1934-1968 this ceremony had been held at the Siloam Cemetery grave sites. In 1999 the memorial location was moved from Queen Street to the Peace Park at the west end of King street. The rededication service was held on Labour day, 1999. (source: "The Martyrs of Tolpuddle - Settlers in Canada" by Geoff Anderson) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Londonont (talk • contribs) 01:50, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

See also

I added the See also section to link other notable events in the same century that were significant in respect of the rise of the organized labour movement. DFH 18:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Martyrs?

Aren't martyrs generally people who are killed in some cause? The article says THEY WERE RELEASED!!! So maybe they could be called the "Transportees" instead of "Martyrs" to avoid debasing the latter term. Edison 07:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

No, a martyr is anyone who SUFFERS for his beliefs, it is a common misconception that it means someone who has died for them212.32.11.115 16:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Our job is to keep Wikipedia neutral. It is not our job to keep the whole world neutral. The whole world knows them as the "Tolpuddle Martyrs". Hesperian 07:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with Hesperian, but it appears our definition of martyrs doesn't agree with our definition of martyrs: "someone who suffers persecution and death for advocating, renouncing, refusing to renounce, or refusing to advocate a religious belief or cause as demanded by an external party." 155.213.224.59 (talk) 12:16, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Tolpuddle Martyrs

Could you please enter a link to http://tolpuddlemartyrs.online-today.co.uk This site has been set up to present primary source materials on the subject Thanks

Gmooredorset 08:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

but it doesn't work so removed. Hurin333 (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tolpuddle Martyrs/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I have given this article a "High" importance rating on the Organized Labour scale, because it was a major event in the development and legal situation of Trades Unions, and is still commemorated throughout the movement in the UK, and also internationally. It's the first time I've rated an article, so would be glad of any feedback from editors. DuncanHill 13:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Substituted at 21:35, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

How were wages lowered?

I think the article needs a brief explanation of how "wages had been reduced to seven shillings and were due to be further reduced to six". Did all the agricultural labourers in the area work for the same employer? were the local employers in a formal or informal association that set wages? did the government impose wage controls? or something else? Lee Choquette (talk) 00:57, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Also, why? Was it a trading slump? Valetude (talk) 01:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

My recollection is that the employers/landlords (often the same thing for agricultural workers) in a local area would agree amongst themselves to lower the wages. That was not considered a "combination" or "action in restraint of trade". However, if the workers banded together to seek higher wages, that was an "unlawful combination" and a restraint of trade. As to why, well, if you're an employer and can pay 5 shillings instead of 7 shillings, which would you do? Due to the pandemic I don't have a text easily available to provide a citation. If anyone can access a good library, the best source would likely be E. P. Thompson's The Making of the English Working Class.Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:57, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Legal technicality

What is the so-called "legal technicality" cited in the lead? They were arrested under an older act and convicted under it. Whether one agrees with the policy of that Act or not, where is the "technicality"? --Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Seven months on and nobody commented, so I changed the phrase to "obscure act" rather than "legal technicality".Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:42, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

The Martyrs' Tree

The article doesn't seem to mention the Martyrs' Tree, a sycamore under which they are said to have met, and I was wondering if there was a reason for that? In the Guardian story below it mentioned that there had been some doubt over the role of the tree, but I'm not sure if there is a historical consensus on this? See:

• BBC News: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-29948177
• National Trust: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/max-gate/features/the-tolpuddle-martyrs-tree
• The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/15/arts.politics

Ta, LittleDwangs (talk) 14:51, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The tree is mentioned briefly in the Tolpuddle article. Maybe it hasn't been mentioned in this article because it's only incidental to the story of the martyrs, whereas it's a notable feature in the village. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 16:40, 27 November 2020 (UTC)