Talk:Tony Meo/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 21:47, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I'm Kingsif, and I'll be doing this review. This is an automated message that helps keep the bot updating the nominated article's talkpage working and allows me to say hi. Feel free to reach out and, if you think the review has gone well, I have some open GA nominations that you could (but are under no obligation to) look at. Kingsif (talk) 21:47, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• Some initial concerns on a quick read:
  • I know those tables are the standard of snooker articles, but it's very hard to understand because of its size. The legend being so extensive and at the bottom doesn't help. I don't know how to resolve it entirely, but moving the legend above the table should help. Could the different kinds of ranking tournaments also be given separate tables?
    • Moved the legend. I'd want to seek a consensus before using separate tables for types of tournaments - shall we float this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
      • @BennyOnTheLoose: Yes, asking the snooker project on improving their tables would be a good idea. Kingsif (talk) 22:39, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
      • @BennyOnTheLoose: I saw you started discussion there, have any solutions been proposed, if just for a trial update on this article? Kingsif (talk) 23:56, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Some technical issues in the lead: "Aged 17" should use a written number, "then youngest" is adjectival and needs a hyphen.
    • Amended for the specified points. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • He reached the final of the 1984 Lada Classic but lost in the deciding frame to Davis after missing in his attempt to pot a yellow ball after being distracted by a spectator calling out "Come on, Tony". - too much detail in the lead. It could stop after "lost", after "frame" or "Davis" at the most.
    • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • retained it in 1987 English Professional Championship - presumably the championship should be wikilinked with the text just reading "1987".
    • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • He compiled a maximum break of 147 - the lead already says a maximum break is 147, so no need to repeat, and "compiled" is certainly the wrong word. Using "made" again should be fine.
    • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • became a wrist watch consultant - a consultant for wristwatches (also, one word) doesn't seem ... real? ... and the article doesn't give any more detail, and the source is offline. Could this be clarified or removed?
    • Source has "He retired in 1997, turned his back completely on the game and became an expert consultant in wrist watches, which is still his occupation." I'm open to removing this point from the article, or amending. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:10, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
      • Hmm, are there other sources that might shed light? Of course, "turned his back completely on the game" itself seems like an interesting and important point. Kingsif (talk) 22:39, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Top-to-bottom review

• Copyvio
  • No images
  • Earwig report gives a big 0.0%... which is actually rather suspicious in itself. I'm sure if there's anything unusual about the sources used, a manual source check will show it.
• Infobox
  • No free images?
    • I haven't been able to find any relevant free images. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
    • Added an image of Steve Davis. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • It is preferable to not have cites in the infobox. Do his sporting nation, nickname, and highest ranking not appear anywhere in prose to be cited there? If not, why?
    • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • It says he made one maximum break in the infobox, while even just the lead talks about two...
    • He only has one official maximum break. I've added "unofficial but perhaps that needs a footnote? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• Lead
  • Pretty much covered in above first impression notes
• Early life
  • Half of this should be in an "Amateur career" section. It was in his early life but is career information, not the prelude to a career.
    • Split. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• Professional career
  • He turned professional in June 1979 - as the opening sentence, use his surname rather than a pronoun.
    • Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
  • The written structure of this section is... not great. There are lots of short paragraphs, some very short, and then a couple very long ones. It's not very easy to read, even on my big screen. Added to that, it is a long section without any images to kind of break it up. For readability, it probably should be sub-sectioned. If possible, the location of paragraph breaks could also be reconsidered.
  • The sentence structure is also more train-of-thought than anything else. Liberal and improper use of commas abounds, including one case of a comma replacing a full stop (with a 9–7 final victory against Silvino Francisco,) - and at the end of sentence where commas seem to represent pauses for thought rather than clauses or connections.
  • The language is inappropriate. In some places it just uses sports jargon that may need linking or to be expanded, but in other places the phrasing (with this jargon) is more like a live sports commentator or results announcer than an encyclopedia. E.g. Meo finished his first session with Terry Griffiths all-square at 4–4 or He was a losing semi-finalist, 3–9 to Griffiths or two groups each of four professional players play one-frame round-robin matches or Davis led by 38 points, but Meo recovered to 12 points behind by constructing a break of 26.
    • To summate these three points: more like a snooker fanbook than an encyclopedic biography.
  • It doesn't seem to define or even link what is meant by "ranking tournament", which crops up so much it seems important. Assuming this is a tournament where you can gain rankings, a brief explanation and link should be easy to add at the first mention.
    • Added a wikilink. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
  • I'd like the general fixes to be made before looking at accuracy and broadness of this chunk of prose.
• Performance and rankings timeline
  • Some mentioned above, the footnotes for this would also benefit from a little sub-header in bold
    • Added sub-header. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
• Career finals
  • The first two tables are unsourced.
    • Added sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• Sources
  • The main source seems to be Hayton, Eric; Dee, John (2004). The CueSport Book of Professional Snooker: The Complete Record & History. Lowestoft: Rose Villa Publications. ISBN 978-0-95485490-4. - does this exist online for me to verify much of the article? Worldcat doesn't show it any nearby library to me.
    • I don't think there is any online version of this. The pages cited are a list of match results with some basic biographical info. There's a consensus against cuetracker.net being a reliable source, but any differences with info there would raise questions IMO. Some of the other book sources are available at archive.org. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
  • I'll spot check some of the others after CueSport; it also looks like one of few prose sources, with the others being table/number format and possibly brushing close to SYNTH.

Overall

•  On hold Needs a fair amount of attention, hopefully a good nominator will put in the work. I also appreciate it's been waiting for a review for a while. Kingsif (talk) 22:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
• I don't want to tread on the toes of the GA reviewer, but surely there must be a bit more on his life outside snooker. There's no Personal Life section. Did he marry, have a family? As for the wristwatch consultant thing, according to Eurosport it was a watch and jewelry shop that he ran in Hatton Garden. [1] Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:35, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• @Pawnkingthree: All comments welcome! Kingsif (talk) 23:55, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Kinsgsif In terms of the table, I think there's a consensus that something needs to be done, but not on exactly what that is. I've tweaked the prose but perhaps not up tp GA standard so given that the review has been open for a while, I'm happy for you to fail this nomination. I'd aim to renominate the article at some point. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:48, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

• @BennyOnTheLoose: I'll procedural fail it, then, but happy to review when you nom again! Kingsif (talk) 19:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)