Talk:Touch the Sky (Kanye West song)/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Requested move 9 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 17:17, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

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Touch the Sky (song) → Touch the Sky (Kanye West song) – A user blanked Touch the Sky (Sean Paul song) and Touch the Sky (Cartouche song) without discussion (now restored both blanked articles). Ambiguous title (song) should redirect to dab Touch the Sky at baseline. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:47, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose Kanye's song is the only one that meets WP:Notability (music)#Songs, so no need for extra disambiguation per WP:CONCISE. Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:44, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

What BarrelProof says below is of course correct as regards disambiguation policy and guidelines, but even without that the Cartouche song topped RPM Dance Chart in Canada for 6 weeks in mid-1995 which means it shouldn't just be blanked to get "Kanye's song" on to the (song) spot. Use AfD to delete articles. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:32, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Charts (or lack thereof) are entirely moot with regards to notability for songs when the articles are unlikely to grow beyond stubs and the songs are not significantly covered by reliable secondary sources outside of album reviews. It isn't solely a "get this to the (song) spot" to "beat" others; the concern is that only one song meets notability criteria (WP:NSONGS), and therefore there is no need for longer titles as the only notable entry would be primary topic for songs by default. Snuggums (talk / edits) 03:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

And the Sean Paul song charted too, for that matter. So disambiguation is needed (not to mention the Smokey Robinson song and the Julian Bond song, although I just did). Whether those other songs should have their own articles or not is a separate question, and what we're mostly here to discuss is the title of this article, not that. —BarrelProof (talk) 04:09, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support: There are at least five songs named "Touch the Sky" that are discussed on Wikipedia, as noted at Touch the Sky. Several of them charted or are from very famous artists or are otherwise sufficiently notable that I agree that the disambiguation is needed. Also, partially ambiguous disambiguation is generally a bad idea (WP:PDAB). However, as noted at WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT and WP:DAB, this is a different question from whether those other songs should have individual articles or not. Let's not get those two questions mixed up. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support per BP and IIO -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 05:01, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose per Snuggums. The other songs aren't notable enough for articles per WP:NSONGS (charting alone isn't enough to pass the notability test). We also don't keep articles around just to force disambiguation at another page, which seems to be what IIO wants here. Calidum T|C 18:32, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Calidum notability criteria is for article titles, not for article content. WP:DAB follows contents, not titles, so yes, keep the artist name and help everyone. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:43, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't see anything on WP:DAB saying that extra disambiguation (i.e. artist name) should be included when there's only one notable song to begin with. WP:CONCISE, which is policy, says to use shorter titles for articles when possible rather than longer ones. This is one of those times when a shorter title can reasonably be used. Remember that notability (WP:Notability (music) is the relevant notability criteria for songs) does play a role in whether or not disambiguation is needed. Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:57, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Being sufficiently notable for disambiguation on Wikipedia and being sufficiently notable for having a separate stand-alone article are two different things. See, for example, WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT and WP:DAB, e.g., "The fact that an article has a different title is not a factor in determining whether a topic is primary" and "either as the main topic of an article, or a subtopic covered by an article in addition to the article's main subject". —BarrelProof (talk) 00:18, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support this should be moved, and direct partial dab to dab 76.120.162.73 (talk) 21:26, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support. Doing this and [1] this is not OK. I found various sources discussing Sean Paul's, so its lack of notability is questionable. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 18:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.