Talk:Tour First

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This article needs to be updated- see the french article for a more up to date version. The name has been changed to Tour First. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.129.77 (talk) 04:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I have corrected the following points:

• Courbevoie is not the high-rise business district of Paris. Only a small part of Courbevoie is high-rise office buildings. Most of Courbevoie is essentially a dormitory town. Also note that La Défense straddles three communes (municipalities), it is not entirely contained within the commune of Courbevoie
• the official location name, as appearing on addresses, is "Paris La Défense", so please leave this in the infobox. If you want to double check this, go to http://www.laposte.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=295 which is the postal code search engine of La Poste, the French postal services, then under the entry "commune" enter "Paris La Defense", then select "Codes Postaux et CEDEX", and it will list the postal codes of La Défense. Now enter "La Defense" only, it will retrieve no postal code. Enter "Courbevoie", it will retrieve postal codes inside the non-La Défense part of Courbevoie, but it won't retrieve the La Défense postal codes. Hardouin 20:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The proof that you have just provided means absolutely nothing. I worked at an office in Aubagne that had a Marseille cedex address. --Bob 23:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, the official postal address of La Défense is "Paris La Défense". The name Paris was added on purpose by French authorities at the end of the 1980s if I remember correctly. Ask User:Metropolitan, he can probably confirm this. So the name "Paris La Défense" in the infoboxes is perfectly valid. Hardouin 23:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Metropolitan agrees with my edits. Look at my talkpage. --Bob 23:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I have stuff shipped to me in Africa with a shipping address in the United Kingdom, does that mean that the Virology center in Entebbe, Uganda is in Cambridge UK? Following your logic it would. --Bob 23:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, the official name of La Défense as used by postal services is "Paris La Défense". Why do you insist we don't use official naming here? Nobody is saying these towers are inside the administrative City of Paris. In fact the exact name of the municipality is written in parenthesis below the name "Paris La Défense". Hardouin 23:44, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You also reverted the lead of the article, whose wording I had improved, and there's no justification for that. Now it says that La Défense is west of Paris, which is ambiguous (Dreux is west of Paris), instead of the more accurate "west of the city proper". Hardouin 23:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The phrase was redundant. --Bob 23:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

What is? Hardouin 23:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

All of what you are trying so hard to put back in. --Bob 23:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

It is not in Paris, so if it west of Paris, it is west of the city proper. This is redundant. Also, the transportation hub is not in Paris, but in Hauts-seine. --Bob 23:55, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Look Bob, La Défense is in the heart of the Paris urban area. It is not vaguely "west of Paris" as Dreux or Normandy would be. It's west of the city proper, that's quite different. I don't understand your insistance on being vague. Also, La Défense serves as a transportation hub for the entire western suburbs of Paris, not just for the Hauts-de-Seine. In any case, I'll ask Metropolitan to comment on this tomorrow. He lives in the Hauts-de-Seine, and knows public transportation very well. Hardouin 00:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This is why so much of France doesn't like the Parisien attitude. Everything is in Paris, even that which is not. We have Paris, then we travel out of Paris towards the west, yes, out of Paris and we find ourselves in another commune. Now, since we have passed out of Paris, anything west of the point where we were no longer in Paris is west of the city. Simple. Saying west of the city proper is no less vague only badly written. --Bob 00:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

You know full well that the name "Paris" is used for the whole urban area/connurbation, that's why it's vague and ambiguous to say that La Défense is "west of Paris", as if it was in Normandy. What you're trying to do here is basically to bypass the discussion currently going on at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-09-10 List of Tallest buildings and structures in Paris. If you disagree with the fact that Paris is the name used for the whole urban area/connurbation, if you disagree with the fact that we say that La Défense is "in Paris", then express yourself on the mediation page instead of making edits to these skyscraper articles without waiting for the end of mediation. Hardouin 00:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes or no, La defense is situated across three communes none of which bare the name of Paris. --Bob 00:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

that the name "Paris" is used for the whole urban area/connurbation actually, it's not. Région parisienne maybe, but not Paris. Stop being disingenuous. --Bob 00:17, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

So you're basically admiting that you're taking sides and editing articles according to your point of view (the name "Paris" is used only for the City of Paris) without waiting for the end of mediation. That's precisely bypassing mediation. Hardouin 00:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I try to edit articles according to grammatical rules and fact. Now answer the question posed. --Bob 00:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Questions and answers are to be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-09-10 List of Tallest buildings and structures in Paris. By ignoring the mediation going on and editing these articles with the point of view of those who believe that the name "Paris" can be used only for the City of Paris and that it is incorrect to say that La Défense is "in Paris", you have basically bypassed the mediation. I have informed the mediator of this. There cannot be trust in the mediation if some people think they are not bound by what is being discussed there and that they are free to edit the Paris skyscraper articles according to what they believe is right. Hardouin 00:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I see you refuse to answer the question. --Bob 00:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Good lord, this is what the fuss is all about - and it's "post boxes über alles" argument again. You will not get an answer, Bob, but really, you do not need one - it is not another Wikipedian who decides things here, it's fact.

It's already silly to put a post-office address in box that is supposed to indicate "Location" - why not use the name of the locale instead? I do not answer "Paris Cedex XXXXX Paris 0x" when asked where I live just because I receive business mail there. If it is indeed "Location" asked for, "La Défense" is even a logical second rank to the name of the commune - "La Défense" is but an appellation grouping buildings between Courbevoie, Puteaux and Nanterre. The order of priority is arguable, but putting simply "Paris La Défense" with no added precision is both misleading and uninformative. "Paris La Défense" as well makes an unneeded second step, as the uninformed will look to Paris before La Défense for further information. Also, "La Défense" is the official term, not "Paris La Défense" - proof of this is available everywhere [1] [2], not buried in post-office websites.

Drop the "bypassing mediation" argument, Hardouin - it is desperate, disruptive, immature and petty. Rather than wasting time here, you would better do to be combing references for factual and founded answers to the questions asked of you on the mediation page itself - this does concern mediation. THEPROMENADER 07:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

File:Tour First - La Defense - Inauguration 6 mai 2011.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Tour First picture

Does someone could change that horrible pic of the tower which is absolutely out of reality. A day and (normal) night light would be better to show the building which absolutely doesn't seem like that 99% of time. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.74.206.74 (talk) 21:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

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