Talk:Toyota GR Yaris

FIA Homologation Rules

"To meet the WRC's homologation rules Toyota would need to produce at least 25,000 units of the GR Yaris in a continuous 12-month period"

In my opinion this article should cite FIA & FIA WRC rules when discussing FIA & FIA WRC rules. Specifically the vehicle production number for homologation. Preferring to cite journalists who haven't read the FIA rules they have cited that cannot corroborate and often contradict their claims disrespects this article and makes it read like another magazine. I believe Toyota's press release is also incorrect.

It's my understanding from the FIA sources I have been trying to include in the article that Toyota will homologate any specific model of their choice into Group A, then make rally-specific variations and homologate these into the Rally Group of choice. My understanding is 2500 of that model needs to be produced for Group A (not the rally car obviously). This can be seen as standard form in the FIA's list of homologated cars and is the case for current rally car groups. The base/specific model numbers may used to exists but is no longer relevant.

As no GR Yaris homologation has taken place yet it's still semi-speculative anyway. Toyota's claim is that this car will win the WRC and we know a GR Yaris Rally1 is in development but Group Rally1 rules have not been published yet by the FIA. We do know that they do not require the original production bodyshell so the bodyshell talk is irrelevant. Whether a requirement to be homologated in Group A at all for Rally1 is also still unknown.

If I am wrong, all I ask for is a better source. I personally prefer the FIA for an encyclopaedia.

Thanks. --PushingPace (talk) 13:51, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

It's unfortunate that the Group A article stated the 25,000 rule but no direct source given (except maybe the 1993 FIA yearbook). I don't understand FIA regulations, but it feels like to me that doesn't matter what the rule state we should keep mentioning that Toyota builds 25,000 to comply with FIA homologation rules "according to their statement". Maybe the compromise is to point out that official regulations stated only 2,500 cars are actually required, with FIA Specific Regulations for Touring Cars PDF attached as a source. Andra Febrian (talk) 14:15, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, have both Toyota's claim and the FIA rules. The Rally1s need to be homologated by the end of this year so we should have the regulations by then too. Meanwhile I'll plough through Group A archives to see what I can find for that article. --PushingPace (talk) 14:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion about which set of rules apply. FIA Group A is 2,500 but WRC is 25,000. See https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/25-stories/the-changing-face-of-world-rally-cars/  Stepho  talk  22:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

I think I have found where "25,000 of a family" originated: Supertouring cars, in 1996. If you wish see page 51, Appendix J Article 262 - Technical regulations for Super Touring Cars (Group ST). This refers to a formula for circuit Touring Car racing derived off Group A, just like formulas for World Rally Car or Rally2 etc are. Super Touring Cars disappeared and were replaced by Super 2000 in the noughties. Somehow this has wrongly been understood to apply to Group A and the myth propagated. I've checked yearbooks for Group A, N and World Rally Car up and down the years and found nothing confirming it applies outside Super Tourers and if it should apply we know where to look. Stepho-wrs: With regards to accuracy on WRC.com articles, if you understand Rally2-Kit rules please see another poor example: https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc2/audi-quattro-set-for-wrc-comeback/ . I think they used Wikipedia for the article you linked to. Toyota press department are talking nonsense too and it's no surprise the Japanese Wikipedia page also repeats the myth with no source. I'll update this GR Yaris article but if you still prefer Toyota's word over FIA just revert it. Thanks folks I can now sleep at night. --PushingPace (talk) 22:41, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

References