Talk:Traditions of Texas A&M University

uncover

are there any old ags on here who can verify that "uncovering" is a tradition? and by old ags i mean at least going back to the 70's. im pretty sure that uncovering is reserved for the national anthem, prayer, and if you are a true texan, texas our texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.20.87 (talk) 12:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

A tradition doesn't have to go back to the 70s -- some of them are newer, like Maroon Out. At least as of the late 1990s, students were expected to uncover for all yells too (I remember a few almost fights at Midnight Yell when visitors didn't know better). Karanacs 14:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

um yes a tradition does have to go back. thats what makes it tradition ass. maroon out is not a tradition so to speak, it is just something we do. unless you are an old army ag, please do not respond to this post. this is all out of curiosity. the traditions council of a&m does not recognize maroon out or uncover. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.20.87 (talk) 23:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

http://traditions.tamu.edu/new/index.php?q=traditions | 12th Man | Midnight Yell | Gig 'Em | Howdy | Bonfire | Reveille | Silver Taps|

| Corps | Aggie Ring | Muster | Big Event | Fish Camp|

these are the traditions. the rest are just stuff people make up as we go along. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.20.87 (talk) 23:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Disagree immensely

1. This is Wikipedia and anyone is allowed to contribute. Ol' Ags don't define all of the traditions at the school. New students' opinions are just as valid as the older generations.
2. A tradition doesn't necessarily have to be endorsed by the traditions council. If I'm not mistaken a "wildcat" is not mentioned on this page, but it is a tradition nonetheless. Yell leaders carrying torches to Yell practice is also a tradition not specifically mentioned. I could go on and on, but I think my point has been made.

— BQZip01 — ^talk 23:44, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

The article is not about the Traditions council but about things that are done at Texas A&M. While "uncover" might not be the name of a tradition, is it currently part of the tradition of Midnight Yell (and yells in general). If you'll note, the vast majority of the citations come from magazines and newspapers from throughout the US. This article should be a good explanation of things that non-Aggies have noticed about A&M's practices, and I think it is getting there rapidly. Karanacs 13:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Proper Citation

All pages should be using proper citation as defined at Template Messages. -- Hut101 20:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Aggie Lingo

Aggie Lingo needs additional expanding. I've added to "tea sip" and "Pushing", but there are several more that just need better explaining. -- Hut101 02:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone edited the To-Do list requesting the need for additional lingo relating to food. At first I though it was a joke, but you can find that information at: http://b-batt.aggieband.org/dictionary.html Any ideas on adding it to the list here. -- Hut101 05:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What do we want to do about the lingo. That site has quite a bit, but there is no way to fit it all here. If we want, we can create an article simply to list all words with complete definitions and histories. Copy what we have and what is on that site. -- Hut101 05:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we need to be very careful about letting this section of the article go from encyclopedic description to merely a listing of all words Aggie. Already it is very long and list-like rather than descriptive. Also, as mentioned in the discussion of Ball Squeeze (below), this page should try to stick to traditions that are recognized by and are of significance to a significant number of Aggies. Including a multitude of words known only by the Corps (or any other group comprising less than 5% of the population) will not fit that mold. It is, however, very reasonable include that vocabulary on the Corps article. This, of course, is simply my opinion, so please debate. - Raetzsch 03:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

After thinking about it, I am not certain that the Aggie Lingo section shouldn't be rewritten as descriptive rather than simply a list. See Wikipedia:Embedded list and see what you think. - Raetzsch 03:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I still believe Wikipedia needs to be an encylopedia of all human knowledge. However, I agree that we can not simply "list" words simply because we use them. We're not a dictionary. Thats why I propose we begin revising each word desciption to include its history, significance, usage, and definition with a verifiable reference. Start with the words we have now, then begin adding until we have all A&M related words. How about the use of "Indented List with content" listed in the article you gave. Seems acceptable to me. -- Hut101 00:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

To-Do List

I continued to update the to-do list. I still need to go through Midnight Yell Practice, Corps of Cadets, Texas Aggie Band, Bonfire, and rewrite each one with more acurate and detailed information following the format that I've been using so far. Also any help expanding the Reveille article would be greatly appreciated. -- Hut101 02:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Aggie Ring

There is currently a page called Aggie Ring which redirects here. I was wondering if we should move most of the information about the Aggie Ring to that page instead. -- Hut101 02:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Wildcats

Anyone know of a website or pamplet that explains each Class's Wildcat. We were given a story at our SALT Camp, like Fish Camp but for A&M Galveston, but I no longer remember the entire story. -- Hut101 23:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

There are several stories. One is given in this article under Aggie Lingo. Another involves the cadets' arrival in Aggieland by train and their encounter with Pinky Downs. I can look for details later. - Raetzsch 00:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The actual act of showing ones wildcat is not too much of a concern. What is listed is as acurate as far as I know. It's the background story as to why there are certain number of A!s depending on each class. We learned at our camp that the Junior shot the wildcat three times, three A!s and on the third finally hit the cat, shouting in excitement Whoop!. -- Hut101 07:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Hate to break it to ya, Ags, but the whole wildcat thing, to be historically accurate, is pretty "new army". Back at least through the 70's, there was only one, and that was AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! (eg, the freshman wildcat). Part of the reason that I have also added to the to do list to further the Aggie lingo pertaining to food is that the word for pineapple is "wildcat". This is because fish weren't able to eat the fruit until A&M beat t.u. that year, thus earning the ability to indulge in the tropical delicacy, but also the privelege of the AAAAAAA! wildcat. I know we all like our Fightin' Texas Aggie stories, but however entertaining, not all of them are true. Zip '08 A-WHOOP! Txtimetraveler 07:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh...my dad ('71) still whoops...the whoop is actually the rebel yell from the Civil War-era of the South. I recommend watching Gettysburg to see an example of it. — BQZip01 — ^talk 23:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Ol' Sarge

I'm looking for info and history about Ol' Sarge. -- Hut101 01:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Found a Battalion article that explains differences between Reveille and Ol' Sarge. http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/09/07/Opinion/Let-The.Dog.Out-711421.shtml?norewrite200612141922&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com. -- Hut101 00:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Info Bubble

How do we satisfy the requirements for "This article or section does not cite its references or sources." so that it can be removed.

The tag can be removed as easily as it was put in. However, in order for this article to be of the highest quality, we need to establish verifiability. The tag will serve as a reminder to other editors who check this page from time to time and who may contribute sources. Once a high level of verifiability has been established, it should be removed. - Raetzsch 17:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we can assume to some degree that most information comes from the Texas A&M University Traditions website. -- Hut101 05:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

No question. It will likely prove to cover most of the uncited material. - Raetzsch 02:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

How should we show that most of the information is derived from that one page. Maybe by adding a reference at the end of every paragraph for each tradition that links to the traditions page? -- Hut101 03:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Most of the sections now reference the Aggie Traditions page. I threw in a few more, also. - Raetzsch 04:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the amazing work. I'm still working on the main Texas A&M University article, and hopefully I'll get more work done on the individual traditions later. -- Hut101 06:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Consolidate

Maybe we should consolidate the seperate pages for each tradition back into this main article. Such as Muster. The seperate page for Muster is a single paragraph while within this article it's quite extensive. Also, we risk becoming a directory and causing infinite looping. (Forgot to sign) -- Hut101 17:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

That may be a good idea for Muster. However, it seems that Muster is about the only tradition whose individual article is not longer than the brief summary given here. Perhaps we should reduce the length of explanations given here (this article is already very long) and work to expand the separate articles such as Muster. - Raetzsch 17:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

If we reduce these summaries anymore we might as well merge the list back into the main A&M article and move all the content pretaining to the individual traditions into their seperate pages. Also, Silver Taps is about the same length here, as on its own page. -- Hut101 18:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Muster and Elephant Walk I thought should be shortened in this article. Several, including Muster, could be expanded in their individual articles. Merging is fine if there's nothing to expand upon, as may be the case with Silver Taps - Raetzsch 18:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll begin working on shortening, and consolidating, when I finish studying for a final. -- Hut101 19:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I've added a lot of historical info to the Muster page, now, too, so it is a nice-sized article. Karanacs 13:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Tradition vs. Change

I just read the page on Traditions at A & M, and, as a graduate who just had his 35-year reunion, I have to say that the one tradition that was left out is "Change." Muster has changed, Silver Taps has changed, even the words in the endzone "Texas Aggies" have changed to "Texas A&M" because Bill Byrne doesn't like the term "Aggies."

I was reading the part about the way that Aggies "wildcat" depending upon their class. I never knew any of that, and I was in Cadet Corps from 1967 to 1971. That ain't the way we did it!!!

I was stunned to hear recently that someone said the grass at the MSC is "Memorial Grass" and that's why you can't walk on it. Baloney! It was simply a gentlemen's agreement back in the 1950's that seniors would not walk on the MSC grass so that it would stay looking nice for visitors to the campus. No one ever heard of "Memorial Grass." That's nonsense. People just make this stuff up over the years, until everyone believes its a tradition. Go figure. PGNormand 00:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

If you could either get a source explaining how traditions were carried out in the past, or explain yourself we should be able to incorporate that into this article. -- 66.253.146.139 17:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I know exactly what you're talkin' about, buddy, and I'll be the first to add the category. It's the truth, that change is a tradition in Aggieland. Hopefully I can accurately capture that. "Things change over time, but the tradition lives on" they say. Zip '08 Txtimetraveler 07:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Is this really deserving of mention as an Aggie tradition? By this definition of "change," every institution in the world, academic or otherwise, could list "change" as a tradition. If it is to stay, it needs citations. - Raetzsch 16:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think it is deserving of a tradition. So many new Ag's are under the impression that tradition doesn't change, but it is a tradition in itself. "Need citation" always seems to be a wiki-euphemism for "I don't like that idea." How do you cite that? Or does that deserve it's own lengthy article that Bonfire was never built the same way twice, or that some old yells aren't used anymore, or that for a long time there was "fight night" boxing matches between the dorms for many years? In short, it's a compact way of describing the evolution of the tradition, which if you look at the to-do list, is an item that remains unremanded. Txtimetraveler 21:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that things do change in Aggieland and that many Ags are unaware of it. But really, everything changes. The traditions listed here are theoretically somewhat unique to A&M. If we list change as a tradition, we might as well list breathing as a tradition. I don't mean to sound obnoxious because I know the addition was in good faith, but I think change is merely a fact of life for everything and everyone. - Raetzsch 03:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Simply informing readers that Traditions at A&M change over time does not contribute any information. Informing others, what traditions changed, how they changed, and how that's relevent compared to other universities is usefull and constructive. By saying that a citation is needed does not mean we don't want or need the section. Only that to ensure the section is relevent to our readers, we need some form of proof that a significant change has occured. You might try the Battalion, as they are a good historical source. Also, on the side, only Baylor and Texas Tech articles list any type of traditions. -- Hut101 05:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I will work on the section on change. I, beyond personal reasons, think it's really necessary, as too many people are under the impression, Ags and outsiders both, that any alteration of "how it's done" is somehow detrimental to the tradition or "Aggieness" of the institution. If we're seeking accuracy at all here, then there must be some acknowledgement of this for an accurate portrayal in this article. At the same time, citation is not as easy as it comes. The Battalion is only accurate as far back as the person who wrote the article can remember, or cared to check his facts. As such, I ask we not delete this section, it's a relevent start, at least while I do the research.Txtimetraveler 08:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

That is a good point you raise, and I agree. I thing the suggestion of showing how traditions have changed is a good one. Perhaps the best way to do this is to incorporate the history of each tradition into its respective section. (It could potentially get in-depth enough to spawn a new History of traditions at Texas A&M article. Would that be appropriate, or just too much?) What do you think? - Raetzsch 19:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Aggie Ring

The statement that the design of the Aggie Ring has remained unchanged since 1894 is simply not true. I believe that the original ring design had an intertwined AMC on the crest. Also, I know that the eagle has not always faced the same way. When I was a freshman I had to memorize the years that "the eagle turned his head." I know that one Senior Class (1938 I think) had an oval maroon stone instead of the traditional crest. I know that my father-in-law's ring, my father's ring, and my ring (Classes of '42, '49 and '71, respectively) were much "squattier" in shape and design. But the crest of my sons ring, Class of '99, is much taller. A simple trip to the Corps Center to look at the Ring Collection will confirm all this. I don't know who wrote all the things about the "symbolism" of the Aggie Ring, but it sounds like something that someone made up recently. I don't believe that this "symbolism" was contemporary with the origins of the current design. All of this needs to have a "citation added." PGNormand 05:49, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Clearly you are correct about the changes. I am class of 2002 and we were taught that no major changes were made since the 70's, although the general appearance underwent little change for much longer. Some info on the history of changes can be found at http://www.aggienetwork.com/ring/timeline.aspx. Also, I've cited the Association's web site as a reference for the symbolism in question. Perhaps that is a newer tradition, but it is very well-established today. - Raetzsch 18:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I propose removing the portion of the Aggie ring dunking ceremony that references a tradition of having to drink the pitcher in the number of seconds equivalent to your class year. If such a time requirement tradition exists, it has only come about in very recent years. Certainly there was no such requirement that I was aware of during the 70's, 80s, or 90s. I have seen only a single, non-official article reference to such a time limit and don't know that such a requirement is either long lived, common or well known. Macae 19:32, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Three weeks and no one has objected to removal of the time requirement description of the ring dunking tradition. Also no official or reliable sources have been produced to confirm that a time requirement has been part of the ceremony for the majority of Aggies. I will therefore remove that portion of the article. Macae 14:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Spirit of '02

The canon is called the Spirit of '02 if that helps. - Raetzsch 02:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I've added the information, and added a reference for Parsons Mounted Cavalry. -- Hut101 07:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

We've Never Been Licked

Should this movie be listed under the Corps of Cadets as a tradition, or possibly listed elsewhere. Maybe under a new article containing all media relating to Texas A&M University. -- Hut101 00:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's see if we have enough examples of media to justify an article. Junction Boys is another film/book. There are plenty of books, but how many are noteworthy? What other types of media? Benjamin Knox art? - Raetzsch 00:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, any major motion picture should be noteworthy of an article. And I agree, it doesn't really belong here. - Raetzsch 00:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we could start an article and begin listing both digital and paper media privatly published and published by the University. Later we can link to it from the main Texas A&M University page. We don't need to create articles just for each type of media published. Just list them and give a short explaination. -- Hut101 03:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Info Box

I was thinking of creating a info box template that can be placed in each article relating to a tradition which will state "Tradition of Texas A&M University" and have a link back to this traditions page, and maybe an image such as the one used on the Aggie Traditions website: http://aggietraditions.tamu.edu/ -- Hut101 03:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Aggies never lose?

I am aware of a traditional saying spoken in regards to Aggie sporting contests. The statement is that "Aggies never lose, though they may sometimes be trailing when time expires" or variants of the same sentiment. Two different version are shown at this Aggie Moms Club and at Aggiesports.com. I've also heard it said that Aggies never lose a half-time (though of course I personally dispute that assertion).

What do Y'all think - Does this saying merit inclusion here? Johntex\^talk 04:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

As a student, we do state we've never lost, simply ran out of time. I'm not sure if it merits its own section however. Maybe it should be listed under Aggie Lingo. Also, it seems I need to update the to-do list. -- Hut101 16:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

"Aggies never lose, they just run out of time" is how I've usually heard it. Perhaps there could be an Aggie Beliefs subsection that includes things like the above statement, the Aggie Code of Honor (which definitely needs mention), and so on. - Raetzsch 19:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that we need a section for Beliefs though we need to rigidly define what is allowed under that section. Any particle belief by more than one Aggie could go there. Also, I'm not sure the Honor code deserves mentioning. The current Aggie Honor Code became a University wide policy about three years ago though it's unknown how long its been a part of the Corps of Cadets. Along with A&M, other universities, and academies have similiar such "Honor Codes". References: http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2006/09/21/MailCall/Ams-Code.Of.Honor.Older.Than.Three.Years-2290359.shtml?norewrite200701071736&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com - http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2006/09/21/MailCall/Aggie.Honor.Code.Not.Plagiarized.From.West.Point-2290362.shtml?norewrite200701071736&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com - http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2006/09/20/MailCall/Aggie.Honor.Code.Violates.Aggie.Honor.Code-2286419.shtml?norewrite200701071735&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com - http://fotpt2.blogspot.com/2005/11/cadet-will-not-lie-cheat-steal-or.html - http://www.vmi.edu/show.asp?durki=692&site=20&return=212

Additional Information

I found a wiki an Aggie started on their website. Aggie Wiki. Maybe some of this information can be incorporated into Wikipedia. -- Hut101 17:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Ball Squeeze

I am completely in favor of making this article as comprehensive as possible. However, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of Aggie traditions that are recognized by only a small subset of the Aggie family. There's no way we could hope to include them all. Perhaps we can move ball squeeze to the Aggie Band article since it is well recognized by the band but not by the general Aggie population. - Raetzsch 22:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I am inclined to remove this section until a verifiable reference can be located. So far, the only sources I’ve found are Baylor and University of Michigan message boards. Once such a source has been located, I believe this section can then be added to the Band article under a Traditions section. -- Hut101 00:48, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

This section should be completely removed. This is NOT a tradition by any unit of the corps. One video clip/picture has been taken completely out of context. The picture in question (see http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/spankytoes/squeeze_ags.jpg) shows several members of Company E-2, not the band. You can tell from the citation cord and the year (2006) since they won the General Moore award the year prior. One of the traditions of the entire student population at Texas A&M is to hump it. This involves placing the hands on the thighs and bending slightly at the waist and knees. Someone in Aggie lore found that this increases the volume of sound. The freshmen in E-2 at Texas A&M are responsible for guarding Revielle. Several times in the past, some people of rival schools have taken cheap shots at Cadets guarding Revielle by giving them a swift punch in the family jewels (either for the purposes of distracting them so Revielle could be stolen or simply out of malice). It is not uncommon for soccer players blocking a free kick to guard their "packages" and it is not unwarranted in this instance either. That said, this combination of traditions makes for an awkward photo.

Just because your outfit might not still do it (this going for Silver Crapper, etc) doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere else. Importantly, this is not only a supposed Band tradition, I remember being on a bus filled with Cav jocks on the way back from San Antonio this year and giving a hard Ol' Army squeeze. I have photographic proof of this tradition if I dig it out, in a 1976 Aggieland. Txtimetraveler 06:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Squeezing during tight situations (i.e. a game winning field goal) is still a tradition, albeit an unofficial one, but I was refering to the ball squeeze mentioned in the title of this section. BQZip01 07:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

t.u. definition

Request we revert the definition of t.u. to the previous version. Let's discuss deletions before making wholesale deletions of 3-4 lines of text.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.17.129.22 (talk • contribs) 11:16, 2007 February 12

Aggies don't define t.u. as "the university". Another thing, please create an account and sign your posts. Thank you. --Blueag9 20:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, had a problem getting an account with Wikipedia. I think one definition is sufficient and I think the second one under people and places makes the most sense as to where it should be put. If anyone objects, we can always move it. BTW, it was originally refered to as "the university" in the late 1800s; it no longer is since Texas A&M became a university. Upon further reflection, though, it doesn't make sense to refer to arcane terminology. Delete/criticism accepted.

The current t.u. definition you left is widely used amoung Aggies including students. It's a proper definition and should be left where it is. -- Hut101 17:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Moving "We've Never Been Licked"

I believe we should delete references to We've Never been Licked. It is a movie, not a tradition. If you want to make it a tradition, reference how the movie is used as a tradition, not that it was made at/about A&M. Will delete in 5 days if there is no objection.

Though We've Never been Licked is not a tradition, it's a movie that refers to Texas A&M and should remain. However, there is uncertaincy as to where we should place the information. Some universities includeing t.u. have a section on their main article that lists media that has referenced the university. I say the section should be kept, however, it could use a new home. -- Hut101 17:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

How about moving We've Never been Licked in the same manner as arcane terminology? I moved it to the bottom and placed it under Movies.BQZip01 17:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a great location for now. Maybe some day I'll get around to creating an article just for media relating to A&M. -- Hut101 18:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Arcane terminology

While steam showers were a thing of the past and it is now considered hazing, it should be put in proper context and I added an extra section for it. These terms are still used in The Standard as examples of outlawed hazing and are often used in Aggie stories of Ol' Army days. It deserves its place, but should be given proper context. If someone has a better suggestion of where to put it, I'd be happy to move them, but they don't belong in everyday lingo and shouldn't be refered to as "hazing" unless put in today's context (it wasn't always considered hazing).

Good idea, placing them in a section with proper context. -- Hut101 17:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd LOVE to see this section expanded.BQZip01 17:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Is this really accurate to call these "outdated"? My outfit still does most of these (this from an '08 butt), and we're a First Brigade integrated outfit. Maybe in Wing-land or Band-land they don't exist but that's hardly universal, wouldn't you agree? Txtimetraveler 06:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

12th Man Towel

Can someone add this picture in the 12th man towel section? I'm still a little rusty on how to do it. http://12thmanfoundation.com/mag/Vol5/vol5no05/images/flashback.jpg

We'll have to get permission from them first before using the image. Very few admins support uploading images under "Fair Use" which I could do now. -- Hut101 18:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The 12th Man Towel was not created in 1984. I gave the idea to Harry Green in 1979 when we were brain storming about elevating the Aggie Club Student Group's engagement. My idea was a knock off on the Pittsburg Steelers Terrible Towel. Harry thought is was a good idea and called Marvin Tate who sent Jerry Arp over to help with the idea. Jerry had just come over from Clemson to work with in Marketing for the Athletic Dept. He liked the idea because Clemson had started similar concept and called a handkerchief the "Tiger Rag". He wanted to call the towel the "Ag Rag". Harry and I prevailed to stay with the 12th Man Towel. We had a local vender print 500 and we sold them all at the 1st home game in 1979-Universtiy of Houston. That year we played our first 5 games on the road so we were half way through the season. The idea simmered for several years then Jackie Sherrill came on board familiar with the Terrible Towel program having coached at Pitt. He and the students mentioned took the existing idea and developed it into a student and Former Student wide, across the entire stadium12.208.130.2 (talk) 14:48, 25 September 2018 (UTC) promotion and it took off. In 1980 Jerry Arp, Harry, I and a couple student leaders met at Harry's office to talk about further promoting the idea. After the meeting Jerry was headed out to Houston and I guy ran a red light, T boned him and killed him. He was a great guy. Sad, very said. All this to say that the 12th Man towel idea had been around since 1979 not 1984.

Also, the conference changed travel rules in the mid 80's and the 12th Man Kickoff team had to start paying their own way to away games. The student Aggie Club got together and committed the proceeds from the sale of the 12th Man Towels to the travel expenses of the Kickoff team at Coach Sherrill's request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.208.130.2 (talk) 15:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Bonfire

I've done a lot of work recently on the Aggie Bonfirearticle. What else do we need to add/expand/modify on that article to get it in a state where it doesn't need to be on the todo list here? Karanacs 13:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Howdy

Added link to aggie lingo for the term "bad bull". BTW, should there be a link to the wikipedia entry for the word "howdy" on this site?

Painted overalls

Just wanted to mention this non reg tradition before i forget Oldag07 18:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not just a non-reg tradition; Corps members (most notably and visibly, the Yell Leaders) do too. — BQZip01 — ^talk 20:52, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

More traditions before i forget

• Pennies on Sul Ross Statue
• Overalls as mentioned above
• Traditions Council
• Class Councils
• March to the Brazos
• Yell Practice in front of capital during t.u. away games
• Locking arms and swaying during the war hymn
• 12th man song
• Bottle cap spurs before Tech/SMU games
• Fish pond- throwing people in
• Aggie Introductions "Howdy, I am Oldag07, but most importantly i am a proud/the proudest (controversial) of the fightin' Texas Aggie class of 2007"
• Boot Dance
• Senior boots
• Aggie Moms clubs/ Texas A&M Clubs
• Class Councils
• Class Gifts
• Century Tree
• Whooping
• The use of the word "traditions" in things around campus and BCS. the energy saving slogan at a&m is "Saving Energy, The New Aggie Tradition" and traditions book stores
• Bus routes named after traditions
• eventually if we do have an aggie yells page, we should write all of them down with their pass backs.

I am certainly not advocating putting them all in, but just brainstorming Oldag07 23:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I've added the following to the article - Wildcatting, senior boots, and March to the Brazos. I'll see if I can find external sources for some of the others. Karanacs 18:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice article on the ring

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/4958480.html Oldag07 00:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Help Wanted

I've been working on expanding and citing the article Traditions of Texas A&M University for what feels like years, but probably was only a few weeks. I've finally gotten it into what I feel is a relatively cohesive, well-cited article that does a decent job of explaining what we're all about. Now I need a host of other eyes to pick through it and figure out what I got wrong, what I left out, and what ought to be excluded. I also need help with the lead. It's really short but I have a mental block about that, apparently, and can't think of any good way to expand it. All help is greatly appreciated!! Karanacs 20:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Class gift

i am going to take a stab at it:

Since 1912, each graduating class has presented a gift to Texas A&M. Several prominent landmarks on campus were originally class gifts such as Fish Pond: the lettering that spells "Welcome to Kyle Field" and "Home of the 12th Man" was a gift from the class of 1988, the 12th Man Statue, from the class of 1980. Several classes have also provided "President Endowed Scholarships" to future students. "Aggie Traditions: Class Gifts" (HTML). Texas A&M University. 2001-8-10. Retrieved 2007-9-03. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)

The class gift is organized by the graduating class's Class Council. Funds are raised from that graduating class beginning the freshmen year from events that are traditions in themselves including Ring Dance, Boot Dance, Maroon Out and Pull Out day. The class gift itself is decided by vote during student body elections the junior year of graduating classes' experience. The class gift is announced during the graduating class's Elephant Walk.  ??? Source

The most recent graduating class, the Class of 2007's gift will provide renovations to Fish Pond, and a endowment to the organization CARPOOL. "Ring Dance" (HTML). Texas A&M University. 2007-4-8. Retrieved 2007-9-03. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)

as for muster, we might want to say something about the muster organization running that muster.

if the band is a tradition, than so is the singing cadets, the wranglers. we might as well have a seperate article on Texas A&M organizations. i got a whole lot in my student life page with i haven't worked on for a while. just a suggestion.

First Yell (new army fight)

The Red, White and Blue out was not per se part of the maroon out tradition.

is bonfire too long now that we have an FA.

add wildcats to privileged words ? Oldag07 11:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

More sources:

Constitution of class councils. says exactly where funds of class gift go.- http://classof2005.tamu.edu/about.htm a batt article- http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2005/07/05/News/G.Rollie.Plaza.To.Match.Kyle.Fields-960656.shtml elephant walk class gift quote- http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2006/11/21/News/Seniors.Take.Last.Steps.Through.Campus-2505372.shtml?norewrite200612272128&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com Oldag07 11:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Class gifts aren't unique to A&M though; many colleges do that. Even in high school my class raised money for a class gift. Unless there is anything unique about our program (and I can't think of anything), then I don't think this belongs in the tradition section. Karanacs 13:20, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

1. Well the fact that traditions such as ring dance/ boot dance exist to fund it. (maybe just incorporate these facts into the individual sections)
2. The fact that several endowments to things like fish camp are funded by previous class gifts
3. Several landmarks including fish pond and the sign that says "welcome to aggieland" that are related to traditions, are funded byc class gifts.
4. While common, not all schools have class gifts. a&m was the first i have heard of it.Oldag07 11:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
5. it is also institutionalized into the school system beginning fund raising freshmen year. that is different.

if the class gift does not have its own section:

• we should mention in the elephant walk paragraph that the class gift is announced at elephant walk.
• in the ring dance section, we should mention that funds at ring dance go toward the class gift.

I still feel it is a big enough tradition to be mentioned in this page Oldag07 01:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Aggie Honor Code

What do you guys thing about putting the aggie honor code into the traditions section? Oldag07 16:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. — BQZip01 — ^talk 16:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Busy. wasn't expecting that fast of a response

Like the United States Service Academies, Texas A&M also has a Code of Honor. The Aggie Code of Honor is as follows, "An Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal". http://student-rules.tamu.edu/aggiecode.htm Formalized enforcement of the Aggie Code has been formalized in recent years with the formation of the Aggie Honor system office by former university President Robert Gates. http://www.tamu.edu/aggiehonor/

http://www.aggiecorps.org/About/aggiecode.htm http://www.aggiesports.com/traditions/school/dictionary.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldag07 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Might be better to include the whole thing:An Aggie does not lie, cheat, or steal or tolerate those who do. from [1] — BQZip01 — ^talk 20:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

There might be a better place for my comment, but...in reference to the to-do list, I had posted a picture of the Red, White and Blue Out with permission of the photographer (see the diff here). It was removed, even though appropriate permissions and credits were listed. I have not seen a public domain version of this image; the one I posted is from the poster that One Army was selling as a fundraiser. I happen to be related to the photographer and have his permission to use the image for Wikipedia. I would be happy to re-submit the picture, but I'm not going to bother if it's just going to be deleted again. Racooper 19:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

That would be great if you could get the image here. There is a guideline on how to properlyrequest copyright permission. If you follow this and reupload the image, it should be fine. Karanacs 20:31, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I looked the copyright page over; the photographer does not want to allow commercial use of the picture without direct permission. I guess that leaves it out, then. Racooper 00:20, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

Excellent work. A very comprehensive, knowledgeable, and easily-accessible look at the many traditions at Texas A&M. The article is written in a clear and concise style and is supported with good citations and appropriate pictures. Only two things bothered me about the article:

• An explanation of the term "Aggie," its meaning, and origin.
• In the Privileged words section, an explanation of the consequences of using one of the words in a forbiden manner would be useful, as would explanations of their origins and the definition and origin of "redass."

I'd also suggest bumping down the beginning of the Aggie Spirit section so that it starts below the table of contents. It's merely a stylistic concern, and completely my opinion. I just think that starting directly to the right of the table of contents crowds the page a bit too much. I'd recommend checking out Georgia Tech traditions to see an example of what I'm talking about.

All in all, however, it compares well with its sibling article, Georgia Tech traditions. JKBrooks85 20:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Documentation may need some work, but here are the answers to your questions...

1. An Aggie is someone who goes to an Agricultural School. When land grant colleges were first established, they were set up with an expressed purpose of fostering education in agriculture and mechanical disciplines (among others). During this time a LOT of "A&M" colleges were set up: Kansas A&M, Oklahoma A&M, Texas A&M, Ohio A&M, etc. All students who went to these colleges were called "Aggies". Later on, there was a push to eliminate "A&M" from school names when they became full-fledged Universities ("Why do we need to market ourselves so narrowly? We offer so much more than agriculture and mechanical programs.") To incorporate a name change, many went with "State" instead of "A&M", which is where we get Ohio State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, etc.
2. Consequences of using a forbidden word are usually pushups, though in the Corps, this can often last for hours.
3. Explanations for their origins...wow...that might take some SERIOUS work...far more than I intend to put into such an article (this coming from a guy who got the Fightin' Texas Aggie Band article from a stub to featured on the main page in under 4 months!)
4. Definition of redass: Corps members wear a baseball belt underneath their pants, but over the tail of their shirts and underwear, in order to hold their uniforms in a tight configuration. Those who want a uniform to look VERY crisp/sharp may opt to pull it tighter than is necessary according to the regulations. Upon removal of said belt, there will be a red line across the buttocks...hence the term "red-ass". — BQZip01 — ^talk 21:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

• There's already a paragraph in the privileged words section that discusses the consequences (and I managed to source it too!). I added a note about students being called Aggies for the sports teams, which means we can defer the explanation to the article Texas A&M Aggies. I also added a small definition of redass. Karanacs 21:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. As I said earlier, the article was pretty good even before the changes. Fixing these little things so quickly shows how much you care about it, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this pop up in the FAC list before too much longer. JKBrooks85 01:43, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

A Good Wildcat Source

I will try to put this source in soon, but I can't at the moment. http://www.thebatt.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=7d424566-eac7-4118-afd9-7bd48a1f5695 Oldag07 (talk) 02:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

WOW! Nice find! — BQZip01 — ^talk 03:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Citition 11 is not want is cited

This is want Wikipedia says, "Students who choose not to participate in The Other Education are known on campus as "2 Percenters," because of the belief that only 2% of students do not endorse Texas A&M traditions"

This is what the source says “'Kids who only go to class are known as ‘2 percenters’ because going to class is only 2 percent of what there is to do at A&M,'” Unless I do not know English These do not say the same thing!!! Zginder 2008-09-20T06:06Z (UTC)

I don't have source but...the meaning of 2%er has changed over the years, I've been talking to Old Ags who use two-percenter to refer to the portion of the student body that wasn't in the Corps. I don't even consider the university's "traditions" docs to be canon on this one. Racooper (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll change the text back to match the source - it's difficult with traditions articles because the traditions have matured. We have to go with the sources though. Karanacs (talk) 19:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Source for more traditions

From the President of the U.S. nonetheless! [2] — BQZip01 — ^talk 07:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's a transcript of his address. I don't think we need any more sources as of now, but just in case we do, we can rely on this one. BlueAg09 (Talk) 12:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Fish Camp article

I'm working on an article for Fish Camp, which I believe has changed so much over the years and deserves a bit more talk than the few mentions this article gives it. I am going to be doing some research and writing over the next month or two, and any help or suggestions on the matter would be appreciated. --Jakebathman (talk) 07:55, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Please note that all information must be sourced to reliable sources (all TAMU websites don't count). If the information hasn't been covered in anything beyond the Batt or the university websites, then it's probably not really that notable. I'm unconvinced that a separate article is justified, but I'll wait and see what you come up with. Karanacs (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I would disagree with the assertion that "all TAMU websites don't count". They certainly count, but they must be reliable. Sourcing the number of attendees is fine. Saying it is "the largest gathering of its kind in the world" would not be appropriate. Let me know if you need help. — BQZip01 — ^talk 15:06, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Gold Mine of Traditions Info

If anyone is looking for detailed info on Aggie traditions I have a gold mine of information. I was on the Traditions Council this past year. Every member is given a binder full of information and documents from the University Archives to memorize so we can go around apeaking to various groups about A&M traditions. Contact me on my talk page if intrested. Txaggie2011 (talk) 18:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Where possible, we really need good third-party sources. If there is any information that was from, say newspapers or books, that would be useful here. If it is primary documents created by the university departments, we should use them sparingly. Karanacs (talk) 19:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Asking for Luck

What would yall think of changing the heading "Asking for Luck" to something else. It seems vague, I am not sure yet of a better title for this section but any ideas would be appreciated.--Sdk2k11 (talk) 00:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Brainstorm-

• Putting a penny on Sully
• Asking Sully for Luck
• Sullivan Ross Statue
• Sully
• Any more?

Oldag07 (talk) 23:36, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

My initial ideas were similar to this but if we choose one of these then we need to pull the Century tree out of that section (possibly to its own). I would lean towards "Sullivan Ross Statue" or "Lawrence Sullivan Ross Statue" because even though the penny tradition is the only reason it is significant to the article I feel that "Putting a penny on Sully" or "Asking Sully for Luck" is wordy and wouldn't fit well. That is just my personal opinion though.--Sdk2k11 (talk) 01:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it is appropriate to simply put it as a footnote with the statue itself. — BQZip01 — ^talk 01:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Gig 'em

Given the military traditions of the school, wouldn't it make more sense that "gig 'em" derives from the use of the term "gig" to mean an infraction of military uniform regulations during an inspection (as in "gig line")? The associated gesture would be more appropriate to an inspecting officer signalling to his lieutenant that a violation has occurred (similar to a baseball umpire's "out" signal) than a wader gigging a frog or flounder (which would be a sharp downward thrust of the forearm and hand as a unit). All of the A&M alum to whom I've spoken about the matter have favored this interpretation. It might be worth mentioning.165.91.65.14 (talk) 06:05, 27 September 2009 (UTC)RKH

Do you have a source for that? I see no reason not to include it if it could be substantiated, otherwise it's just WP:OR. However, frog gigging precedes the gig line. — BQZip01 — ^talk 06:21, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Would "personal conversation with Aggie alum, class of '95" count (given that that alum is now a professor at West Point)? (and I would imagine that both frog gigging and "gig line" predate "gig 'em").165.91.64.255 (talk) 20:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)RKH

Wikipedia's verifiability policy requires that we use reliable sources (like newspapers and books). We can't do original research, so we can't include personal conversations or opinions. I heard this alternate theory when I was at A&M too, but I haven't found a reliable source that mentions it. If you can find any published version of the story we should definitely include it. Karanacs (talk) 20:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

The A&M Traditions Council website acknowledges it at http://traditions.tamu.edu/node/15. I tried editing the article but this is my first time trying to add a citation and I muxed it up. If you know how, could you please clean it up?

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Updated Spirit of ‘02 Photo

Recommend updated photo for the Spirit of '02. The current shows outdated Corps uniform and pre-renovation Quad. Scampwalker (talk) 22:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)