Talk:Nantes tramway

Tidy

I'll just explain my corrections here:

• Tramways / railroads / road networks / etc are "long" not "large".
• "At the sight of cost repairs" doesn't make sense - what you want to say is that there was a "prohibitive (i.e. so high that it wouldn't make economic sense to rebuild it) cost of repairs".
• "Constituted of" is not a correct verb form; you say simply it "constitutes".
• In English "environs" means basically all the suburbs around a city, so "all over the city reaching its boundaries (greater Nantes)" is better said as "throughout the city and its environs". Remember the "boundaries" of the city of Nantes don't extend very far - most suburbs are separate towns.
• Rail networks / roads / etc are said to be at "capacity", not at "saturation".
• "Nearby" is only an adverb or an adjective, similar to "close". Therefore, it is grammatically incorrect to say “nearby Nantes airport”, just as you can’t say “close Nantes airport”. “Near” is a preposition, like “beside”, which is grammatically correct.

Also, could you try to find some references for some of the facts in the article? I know there's a book, but there really should be some more. Thanks. (talk) 17:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

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• • User Schcambo,

Thank you for your contributions to the article.

- An entire "transport network" is large not just long, so longest is inapropriate with the context here.

- Why did you change the lengh of the network? after reading an article on the official website of Nantes Métropole (greater Nantes) i realised the network is 41,4 km long, so 40 is not correct.

- Yes Nantes (or greater Nantes because all separate towns forms greater Nantes) extend far enough, then the word boundaries is more appropriate for the article and is best English spoken related to the context of the article rather than environs, unfortunately not precise enough.

- In English, saturation is much more precise than capacity, meaning it can't host more passengers.

- As i told you several times on the article of Nantes, nearby is gramatically correct as well as near, but once again, nearby is obviously more appropriate.

Before telling people to use references or that they write uncorrect English, i advise you to revise your English, and then check things out until you're sure before making any changes on the article and use references.

Thank you.

Firstwind

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I'll try to explain some more:

• Yes an entire transport network would be large (i.e. road, rail, tram, bus, etc); however in this article we are specifically talking about a tramway network, and the length of a tramway network is long.
• I know the network is 41.4 km long (just a note - in English we use '.' not ','), it says it in the infobox; but in the lead section, we don't need to throw facts at the reader, so it will suffice at "over 40 km".
• In relation to near/nearby, I'll explain this in words you can understand - nearby means proche, near means près de. You cannot say "proche Nantes Atlantique Airport", just as you cannot say "nearby Nantes Atlantique Airport".

As for saturation/boundaries, please remember I speak native English, you don't. Your Checkuser case confirmed that every one of those French IPs was yours, so please don't keep up this charade any longer. I really do want to help you - as a Nantais you obviously have a lot to contribute to Nantes-related articles, but reverting my edits and telling me my English is "uncorrect" (the word is actually "incorrect") is simply unacceptable. Thanks. --Schcambo (talk) 10:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

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User schcambo, There's more than one line on the network, so this whole (tramway) network is large, long is not incorrect too but not precise enough. I think that 40 km will not suffice, this is an encyclopedia and everything has to be precise and clear not "approximately". It is clear you're not a native English speaker, and according to your last edit you're not French or doesn't have the recommanded level of knowledge of French to contribute to some English articleswith French origins. Yes nearby is correct as well as near, but nearby is more precise than just near. If you were a native speaker of English as you pretend so many times, you wouldn't make this mistake that reaveled that you're obiously native from somewhere else than English or French speaking countries. I'm studying in Nantes, and i am also fluent in French, and in French "pres de or proche" are alo correct, so you can't deny it in both languages.I do not know where you are from nor what your intentions are, but saying that i'm not an native English speaker is tiresome and so pathetic, as well as your IP check, just check all my IP's from the day we didn't get along on the article of Nantes. I'll leave you the bother to get back to me and tell me where i am from before i arrived in Nantes, but one last one thing, your little confusing game saying the opposite of what people are when you're lying about yourself will lead you nowhere. I don't care about where you are from or else, let's just work on those articles with civility and logically, and accept other users to correct you, because your behavior is not tolerated on Wikipedia. Thank you Firstwind (talk) 17:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

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You're right, I'm not French (and I never did claim to be), I'm Irish, and in case you haven't heard, we speak English here too. It has been clear from all your edits that you don't have the "recommanded level" (the word is actually "recommended") of English to contribute here, and while that should not stop you from doing so, insisting on restoring your garbled version of the text on this page, and others, is unacceptable.

I've tried to help you, you haven't listened, so I'm not going to bother to deal with you myself any longer. There is a report at the admin noticeboard about your behaviour (which I didn't even start); you may wish to comment. --Schcambo (talk) 18:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Right you never claimed to be French, but you tried to use French words (and i don't know why yet). It appears that you are persisting reverting my edits to your poor English, which is considered as vandalizing. I think all you seek is a mediator, and your actions about notice me to an admin are none of my buisness, nor your claims pretending you're Irish or saying that i don't know Irish do speak English. You're just making your case even worse than it is, i suggest you to try to clearly explain yourself about your edits which are not necessary. I also notice you are present to every article i've been. Last thing, making useful contributions or even extend the article (following wiki's policies of course) instead of playing dumb. Firstwind (talk) 18:40, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

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Before you guys get at each others' throat may I remind you that the convention for neither American nor British articles should be edited and written in the language it was begun with. This article was create by moi and in British English/English English/English, not American, please continue to do so; center, sidewalk, railroad for example are not appropriate words for this article. Regards, Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 10:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Um, Firstwind got permanently blocked about two months ago. But thanks for the mediation attempt anyways ;) --Schcambo^{aon scéal?} 18:05, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Legal images

The use of each line map of the tramway system are legal, i picked it up on the official website of "TAN". They are also free to use on paper version. No more to say. By the way i noticed that before that article or some other were created, no one noticed them, bu since i created some, user such as schombo or mindmatrix can't help watching them, all my work in fact. I realised that now those users are going to "take care of those articles", i got some more others that nobody cares of, then when i'll edit them, and i expect mindmatrix or schombo or even ground zero to work on it. There's gonna be a lot of work guys. Good luck! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firstwind (talk • contribs) 13:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Passenger journeys

According to the official figures on the TAN website : "Nearly 454,000 journeys every working day during school term time, 258,000 of the by tramway". It's not realistic to think there would be 258,000 passengers evry day, that's about the population of the city of Nantes. I removed the incorrect figure from the article, maybe someone will come with the right number of passengers on average every day. Mthibault (talk) 23:48, 15 March 2008 (UTC) Please see source : http://www.tan.fr/servlet/com.univ.utils.LectureFichierJoint?CODE=1183987510227&LANGUE=0 Mthibault (talk) 16:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

260 000 journeys are made every day on the tramway network (460 000 on the entire network), and this figure is only about the population living in downtown Nantes. The system spreads through its neighbourhoods, and lots of people from greater Nantes use th system to work, go to school... plus the students (Nantes is the French city to have the largest number of students in a city, it's not Paris), and the tourists. The greater Nantes population is estimated to be 1 million. Those are the right number, take also a look on the transport section on the urban community of Nantes official website. Firstwind (talk) 16:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The population of Nantes is not "estimated", it is known. Nantes has 270,251 inhabitants (99 census) and the "Aire urbaine" has 711,120 inhabitants (far from 1 million). I'm fine with "258,000 passenger journeys", my point was that originaly you stated in the article that "258,000 people" used the system every day, which was not true (imagine my surprise when I first read that since it meant that everyone living in Nantes used the tramway every day). I think that having the "daily ridership" set to 258,000 is also erroneous but I'll let a native english speaker confirm this. I will also add to the article that this figure is only valid during school term time, which represents only roughly 65% of the year. For the entire public transport, 454,000 journeys are made during school term time every day. You are correct to say that "Nantes Metropole" gives an estimate on their website at 260'000 but since the SEMITAN website gives a more precise figure (see link above) I think we should stick to it.

I think the Semitan page should be moved to SEMITAN since they are initials, what do you think ? Mthibault (talk) 23:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

As a native English speaker, i'll answer your questions. The population is estimated, not precisely known, and you know since 1999, things have changes a LOT ('bout 8 years ago), 5000 more inhabitants settle only in downtown Nantes every year, plus new settlers in greater Nantes. The total population of greater Nanates is absolutely not far from 1 million at all, apparently you have no idea of the density. You don't get it; not only the population of downtown Nantes use the tramway, but from greater Nantes, and also people from saint nazaire using the TER, and also from many towns around greater Nantes using the Lila buses (running in the whole state). Most everyone in the state of Loire Atlantic works in Nantes. I don't see then why change 260 000 which is appropriate with the proportion of the city. I agree with you about SEMITAN, because those are initials, thank you for having noticed it. Firstwind (talk) 14:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

The 2008 estimated population of the Nantes urban area is 804,833, so it's hardly near one million. Wiki convention is to use lowercase names, eg. SiCKO redirects to Sicko. @ Mthibault, "daily ridership" is fine. @ Firstwind, if you were a native English speaker, you wouldn't have consistently said "uncorrect" for several months until I corrected you. Please. Get over yourself. (Although you probably won't understand that one.) --Schcambo (talk) 17:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Please Firstwind stop inventing figures (like saying 5000 more people settle in downtown Nantes every year : I have been living in downtown Nantes for 22 years, and I think I would have noticed 110 000 (22 x 5 000) more people in my neighborhood). If by Greater Nantes you mean "Nantes Metropole", it has 580'000 inhabitants and believe me, very few people come from Saint Nazaire (60 km away) every day to work in Nantes and those who do come by car not by tramway, but the "Aire urbaine" as defined by the INSEE includes Saint Nazaire for statistical reasons. It gets worse when you say that "almost every one in Loire Atlantique works in Nantes", this of course is not true, many of my friends and those living and working in Ancenis, Saint Nazaire or Châteaubriant would laugh just reading that. To sum it up : please try to be more moderate and stop inventing numbers.

@Schcambo : my bad for the initials I wasn't sure that's why I didn't change it. Regarding the daily ridership are you sure? Mthibault (talk) 18:40, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

There is a pretty official looking 'Key Figures 2007' pdf on Semitan's web site (now cited in article) that confirms Firstwind's statements above. However we need to be careful what a journey is. In this context, it means a single boarding of a single vehicle. So somebody making a return trip across Nantes and changing at Commerce, which is not an unreasonable commute, would count as 4 journeys a day. Which somewhat explains the relationship between journeys and population that Mthibault points out. What I find more weird is that Semitan publishes what looks like its 'annual report' in English, especially as the rest of its web site is (quite reasonably) French language only. Can anybody explain that?. -- Chris j wood (talk) 17:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Line 2 busiest in France

The article says Extended on 29 August 2005, towards the south, line two transports the most passengers a day in France. This is apparantly contradicted by Semitan's own figures for 2007 (cited in article) that show that line two isn't even the busiest in Nantes, let alone France.

However there have been changes to the routes, with lines 2 and 3 swapping termini, so it is possible that this claim was true at some point in time. On that basis, I've added the fact tag to request a cite of the original source for this claim. If this shows it to be a valid historical claim, we can still use that info the article with appropriate qualification. -- Starbois (talk) 16:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

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