Talk:Treaty of the Three Black Eagles

Two treaties

Most sources that deal superficially with the agreement(s) leading up to the War of the Polish Succession, talk about a single treaty whether they call the agreement Löwenwolde's Treaty or Treaty of the Three Black Eagles. There are several problems with that. Löwenwolde, the Russian envoy, would be an unlikely choice of a name for an agreement that Russia didn't ratify, and which was entered into by Austria and Prussia months before being joined by Löwenwolde. Similarly, Prussia had interests in Courland incorporated into that treaty that were in direct opposition to Russia's interests, hence the lack of Russian ratification. I found that there were two treaties, one in 1732 between Prussia, Austria, and Russia, and a second agreement in 1733 between Austria, Russia and Saxony. Sources that ignore this distinction, tend to have a treatment of the topic that is somewhat confused. The major source referenced in the article that observes it, is: Ragsdale, Hugh (1993) Imperial Russian foreign policy Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, England, page 32–33. Because the article starts out with the "Alliance of the Three Black Eagles" I thought that it was better to place the article under Treaty of the Three Black Eagles with a specific section for the Löwenwolde's Treaty. --Bejnar (talk) 17:42, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I think that's a reasonable solution, with no prejudice to eventually splitting the LTreaty into its own article if the section grows enough to justify its own notability as a stand alone article. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:48, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Mistakes

Some considerable mistakes. The treaty of December 1732 is really the Löwenwolde's Treaty elaborated by Löwenwolde during the second half of 1732 and ratified (!) by Russia in January 1733, but not sent to Berlin under the influence of Emperor Charles VI (because of the question of the Jülich-Cleves-Berg Succession). The interests of Russia and Prussia in Courland were the same from the late 1720 (the first mention of Ernst Biron as potential Duke of Courland dates October 1734). There was no trilateral treaties between Austria, Saxony and Russia in 1733: only two different treaties Austria-Saxony (July) and Russia-Saxony (August). Unfortunately, I can not cite any correct English source. It should be a great idea to consult any Russian or (at least) Polish book on the War of the Polish Succession. Melkij Bes (talk) 12:29, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

@User:Melkij Bes: if you have good sources, perhaps you could correct those mistakes? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:26, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

My English is too poor. It should be funny. In fact, this treaty has no special name in Russia. Only the "Berlin treaty of 1732" or the "Treaty of 1732 between Russia, Prussia and Austria". The "Löwenwolde's Treaty" is mentioned very rarely. The "Tree Black Eagles's" is a Polish name. I can try of course to post some information just here (with references). Melkij Bes (talk) 18:39, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Please do. I think you are right that the current name is based on Polish historiography. PS. I think your English is good enough to contribute to articles here, so WP:BEBOLD and edit away. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC)