Talk:Trenitalia/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 1

Datasheet information

Hi, I think thata should be updated in the datasheet box. Lawtheagoraphobic (talk) 18:02, 9 August 2018 (UTC)==Rationale for reversal of edit of Dybeck on June 10, 2015== On or about June 10, 2015, a user named Dybeck deleted a large amount of the text under the "Controversy" section, citing that it was "a clumsy attempt at political correctness" and "was factually mistaken" (or somesuch language). Since I was the author of much of that section, I would have preferred that Dybeck had reached out to me to ask about the content, rather than deleting what I had written and adding his negative comments.

In fact, my somewhat detailed explanation WAS required, because the usual translation of the family in the photo as a "black family" was inaccurate for a North American audience, at least. That is, Dybeck, I read the original ads and story in the Italian media AND I speak Italian, having lived in Rome. And since I am a native-born American, I believe that I can speak with some authority on how the North American audience would (mis)understand the text that I originally found in the Wikipedia article.

As for my mistakes, I would be delighted if you would actually point one out instead of making a great pronouncement. A little open discussion can go a long way. William J. 'Bill' McCalpin (talk) 21:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, first, calm down. There's no need to get upset about this. Your major error is that people in the UK refer to Indian/Asian people as "black". That's just flat wrong and you should correct it. If you feel that your clumsy edit that leaves you requiring an additional footnote to explain yourself is better than my straightforward edit, I'm not going to die in a ditch over it. However, you can't just leave it with factual inaccuracy like you have at the moment. If you'd prefer to fix it yourself than have me do it, that's fine, but it does need doing. Also, when you're done, please also refer to WP:ROWN for future reference. Dybeck (talk) 09:19, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Actually, on reflection, the whole note you've put to explain "family of color" would just live better on this talk page than on the article itself, to be honest. I'd suggest to you that you might want to move the explanatory note here, resolving the whole issue in a stroke. Dybeck (talk) 09:22, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, we seem to have a problem. As a native English speaker, I have certainly heard English speakers from the UK refer to people from the Indian subcontinent as "black"; I am guessing that you don't believe this. So I looked around, and I see the following:

"Terminology[edit]

Historically, the term has most commonly been used to refer to Black people of New Commonwealth origin. For example, Southall Black Sisters was established in 1979 "to meet the needs of black (Asian and Afro-Caribbean) women".[5] ("Asian" in the British context usually refers to people of South Asian ancestry).[6][7] "Black" was used in this inclusive political sense[8] to mean "non-white British" – the main groups in the 1970s were from the British West Indies and the Indian subcontinent, but solidarity against racism extended the term to the Irish population of Britain as well.[9][10] Several organisations continue to use the term inclusively, such as the Black Arts Alliance,[11][12] who extend their use of the term to Latin America and all refugees,[13] and the National Black Police Association.[14] This is unlike the official UK Census, which has separate "Asian British", "Black British" and "Other ethnic group" self-designation entries.[15] Due to the Indian diaspora and in particular Idi Amin's expulsion of Asians from Uganda in 1972, many British Asians are also from families that have spent several generations in the British West Indies or Southeast Africa.[16] " from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_British

So it seems to me that a number of UK English speakers ALSO consider "black" to include people from the Indian subcontinent.

Please tell me why you know better?

William J. 'Bill' McCalpin (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 05:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

It is, of course, slightly academic given that my main reason for deleting the reference was that it wasn't a reference at all, and was merely justification of why you had made the edit you made, and that any comments on why you made the edit should really belong on this Talk page. I've left intact your choice of words in the main article, since "family of color" seems to me an adequate wording for what we're all trying to describe. We can agree to disagree on the accuracy of your assertions as regards how people in my home country describe Asian people (or, judging from your quote, Irish people!). What I don't think is in dispute is that your "reference" was not a reference. We are in slight danger of making a mountain out of a molehill here, though. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is, at the end of the day, an article about trains... Dybeck (talk) 14:11, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

"family of color" will do fine, since it is not only a literal translation of the Italian, but preserves the ambiguity of the phrase in English. As you have I hope surmised, I did not put in the original comment about the misbegotten advert anyway; I was simply correcting the original text that talked about "a black family" (or whatever the phrase was).

And haven't you heard of the "black Irish"? Oh, never mind...

William J. 'Bill' McCalpin (talk) 01:53, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

There is nothing more beautiful in this world than a Wikipedia consensus! Thanks for your contribution to that. Dybeck (talk) 10:44, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Trenitalia.png

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BetacommandBot 05:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Maps

Can anyone find maps of the train routes ?

Hal06 23:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

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