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| A note on terminology Gilbert, Sullivan, Carte and other Victorian era British composers and librettists, as well as the contemporary British press and literature, called works of the sort that Gilbert and Sullivan produced "comic operas" to distinguish them from the continental European operettas that they wished to displace. Most of the specialist literature on Gilbert and Sullivan since that time has referred to these works as "operas" (e.g., Jacobs, Preface), though some later general books on music prefer "operetta". For a discussion of this, see Kuykendall, James Brooks. "Recitative in the Savoy Operas", The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 95, Issue 4, pp. 549–612. The Gilbert and Sullivan WikiProject has used the term "opera" consistently throughout the G&S-related articles within its scope. |
The Follies of 1907
edit@Ssilvers I just added some interesting content to the article on The Follies of 1907, the very first Ziegfeld Follies. According to this this book one of the scenes lifted whole musical excerpts from Trial by Jury and featured a scene in which the tenor Enrico Caruso is put on trial for pinching a woman. The scene is also a parody of the whole Evelyn Nesbit affair, which was also a plot point of the musical Ragtime, because of the depiction of the lawyer William Travers Jerome in the scene. I think it would be worth a mention somewhere in this article, but I couldn't identify a likely place and didn't want to disrupt an FA article. Given your work on the article, I thought you might have an idea as to how and where to include the content. Best.4meter4 (talk) 13:51, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- @4meter4. Sorry I didn't get back to you on this. I have added this to a footnote here and in the Gilbert and Sullivan in popular culture article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:23, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Move to 'Trial by Jury (opera)'?
editThis might help avoid confusion with Trial by jury (or Jury trial) page... Superb Owl (talk) 22:38, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hi. Please lay out why you think this might be necessary. Do you have evidence that this has caused confusion for a significant number of searchers since this article was created in 2003? -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:47, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It seems odd to have an article that is so niche (a 'high-importance' Gilbert and Sullivan article) easily confused with a 'high-importance' law article (Trial by jury) by only distinguishing with one letter's capitalization. It confused me just now when searching in the search bar. It also confuses search engines and returns the opera regardless of capitalization used. Superb Owl (talk) 22:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'm not fully convinced that this is necessary, but let's see what others say. As you can see from the Talk page archive, we had the opposite problem years ago where a search failed to bring readers to this article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Would you be open to us getting another perspective using a WP:Third opinion request? Superb Owl (talk) 00:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think we need alter the title. There isn't an article specifically about the legal term "trial by jury", and anyone in search of "jury trial" who lands on the opera page can click on the hat note for quick access to the legal article. Tim riley talk 09:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd say the problem is that Trial by jury should direct here. It's generally called a jury trial in modern legal contexts, right? Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 11:53, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Per the above, I'm not sure of the need. "Jury trial" is the common term and anyone who comes here by mistake can use the hatnote to get to that page. - SchroCat (talk) 15:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think we need alter the title. There isn't an article specifically about the legal term "trial by jury", and anyone in search of "jury trial" who lands on the opera page can click on the hat note for quick access to the legal article. Tim riley talk 09:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Would you be open to us getting another perspective using a WP:Third opinion request? Superb Owl (talk) 00:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'm not fully convinced that this is necessary, but let's see what others say. As you can see from the Talk page archive, we had the opposite problem years ago where a search failed to bring readers to this article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- It seems odd to have an article that is so niche (a 'high-importance' Gilbert and Sullivan article) easily confused with a 'high-importance' law article (Trial by jury) by only distinguishing with one letter's capitalization. It confused me just now when searching in the search bar. It also confuses search engines and returns the opera regardless of capitalization used. Superb Owl (talk) 22:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
- Leave the title as it is. Jack1956 (talk) 18:00, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- I have updated Trial by jury to redirect here. It's absolutely insane to have disambiguation-by-capitalization. Does mean updating a bunch of links (though not that many, really), but that's better than having that insanity stand. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 06:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks all for weighing-in - clear consensus seems to be forming on both this title and Trial by jury redirect to now go here instead. I have no objections to either. Superb Owl (talk) 06:47, 4 July 2024 (UTC)