Talk:Tribunal correctionnel

Translator notes

competence = jurisdiction? Elinruby (talk) 02:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

appears to be pretty much jurisdiction with some aspects of scope at times (minors for example), inclined to translate this way because competency in American law at least is much more likely to refer to a person or party than to the court. The French original of this article keeps using juridiction to mean court however (unclear if all courts at the location or certain only specific courtrooms there). So that needs to be figured out from secondary sources or something. Eventually.

I'll copy over the translated template eventually also; I found some untranslated French in this article, which seems more urgent. Elinruby (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

English still very stiff in places but I think I got the French that had been overlooked. A few terms that require research and may be untranslatable I left in french and italicized as foreign/specialized words. Current version is about 0.45 Elinruby (talk) 11:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Name

This should use English name. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:05, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Piotrus: Still looking at this, but use in English books seems to favor the French name, per this search as well as ngrams. Note that more careful analysis may turn up a different result, as some of the items identified as "English" may continue use of the French term in French context, such as a citation, or a quotation in French. But at first glance, it would appear that the French term is the common name in English. Because of this, I've switched the title to italic font. Mathglot (talk) 10:20, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Not the most popular topic... I am fine with your analysis! _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:28, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Usage/translation of terms

Competence

The French term has to do with whether a particular court has jurisdiction to judge a particular matter; it does not mean competent either in the plain English sense, nor in the sense of Competence (law). Mathglot (talk) 10:27, 4 December 2021 (UTC) Reliable sources about law exist that use the word competent in the French sense, usually when talking about French law (but not always), but expressions like "whether court XYZ is competent to decide the matter" are equivalent to the more widely understood expression, "whether court XYZ has jurisdiction over the matter". Mathglot (talk) 10:43, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Misdemeanor, felony

The French legal system does not line up with Common law, and French terms like contravention, delit, crime don't line up well with misdemeanor and felony. Probably additional use of explanatory footnotes, and/or links to other links is necessary to make the meaning clear. I believe there are errors in the current text in cases where English terms are used, and where French terms are used the meaning is opaque. Mathglot (talk) 10:31, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Tribunal correctionnel

This French term is given at least three ways in English sources: either in the original French, or as correctional tribunal, or correctional court. If these are going to all be used indiscriminately in the article as synonyms, we should probably be clearer (expl. note?) that this is going on. Mathglot (talk) 10:33, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

@Mathglot If some English sources do use English terms, WP:USEENGLISH comes to mind, unless they are rare exceptions to WP:COMMONNAME? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:12, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

@Piotrus: yes, I agree about USEENGLISH. I did a cursory search as noted above, but not sufficiently to determine if one is clearly predominant in English sources. As a first approximation, see this ngrams chart, which might imply that the title should be changed to 'Correctional court' but I haven't checked the actual results in books to see if that chart is telling the real story or not, so might stand some more investigation. Even if it's a tie, or the French term has a lead but not an overwhelming lead, I think USEENGLISH would apply here.

Not sure if you're interested in this as well as it's a bit o/t here, but looking a bit further afield towards translation of terms in French law and government that aren't notable enough to have an article about them, USEENGLISH wouldn't apply but WP:RSUE would. But it's often not easy to find a single word or brief expression in English to translate a French law or government term. The word délit is a good example of a word we need to write about, but is very unlikely to have its own article here. By coincidence, I got notified of your message just as I finished adding a long comment at Talk:Eric Zemmour#Translating 'délit'. Feel free to jump in there if you're interested. I'm starting to think this whole issue might be better served by discussion at a higher level, perhaps at WP:WikiProject France, or WP:Translation, because it keeps popping up, and isn't limited to a particular article or translation issue. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:33, 7 December 2021 (UTC)