Talk:Trihydrogen cation

Bond strength

Ah, goodie...we updated the bond strength of the molecule. I was using Chemical Structure and Bonding by R.L. DeKock and H.B. Gray (1989). --HappyCamper 19:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Good article!

Although it's a tad on the technical side, I enjoyed this article. Thanks for putting it together! — RJH (talk) 16:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Article title

I'm not convinced that protonated molecular hydrogen is the best title for this article. From what I've seen in the literature, most people call it H3+, although I understand that it might not be the best title on Wikipedia. As an alternative, I propose trihydrogen cation or triatomic hydrogen cation. Both are listed as possible names by CAS, unlike protonated molecular hydrogen. Here's the full list:

CA Index Name: Hydrogen, ion (H31+) (8CI,9CI)

Other Names: Hydrogen, H3+ ion (6CI); H3+; H31+; Hydrogen (H3+); Hydrogen (H31+); Hydrogen molecular ion (H3+); Hydrogen triatomic ion (H31+); Hydrogen triatomic ion(1+); Hydrogen triatomic monocation; Hydrogen triatomic monopositive ion; Hydrogen trimer ion(1+); Triatomic hydrogen (H31+); Triatomic hydrogen cation; Triatomic hydrogen cation(1+); Triatomic hydrogen ion(1+); Triatomic hydrogen mol. ion(1+); Trihydrogen cation (H3+); Trihydrogen ion(1+); Trihydrogen monocation; Trihydrogen(1+)

Cheers, Itub 18:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Why is it not a good title for Wikipedia? There used to be a restriction that the software would not allow article titles with plus signs, but that has been fixed. H3+ --HappyCamper 22:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought using a formula as a title might be discouraged by the style guide, but perhaps I'm mistaken. --Itub 23:27, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about that. Wikipedia is so big now that there are too many things to remember. How about moving it to H3+ ion? I've always called this "H-three-plus" though. Has less syllables than any of the alternatives above. --HappyCamper 23:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I've looked for related guidelines. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Plus says that the plus sign may give some trouble, but it's not too bad of a trouble, and is used for C++. Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Prefer_spelled-out_phrases_to_abbreviations may or may not apply, depending on whether you consider H3+ an abbreviation. A precedent, although not a guideline, is that the article E=mc2 was renamed to Energy-mass equivalence. In any case, I don't really like H-three-plus--that is one says it, but it looks odd in writing (E=mc2 is not bad, but imagine E equals em cee square!). My favorite is still trihydrogen cation, with all the others as redirects. --Itub 09:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Oops, this page got lost on my watchlist. OK, I've warmed up to trihydrogen cation and moved the page too. --HappyCamper 12:24, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

In an ionic compound?

Can H3+ from any ionic compounds apart from being in a plasma? The article does not mention if any search has been conducted for this kind of substance - eg H3⁺I^- GB 11:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that it does not form any stable compounds other than itself in interstellar space. It does exist as an intermediate in some terrestrial reactions, but I don't know anything about them. --jdigangi 22:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, recently I read that some one was predicting that it may be stable in solid noble gases such as solid neon. But as yet not tested. GB 12:13, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Ortho/para

While technically interesting, of what use is this phenomenon? Are astrophysicists exploiting it for some sort of interstellar NMR? --Belg4mit (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine it is useful for understanding the chemistry of interstellar clouds.—RJH (talk) 20:25, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Potential energy

I'm not common to this field of physics, and glad to find an article about this cation in wikipedia. I need to know the total potential energy of this ion, i.e. the released energy after recombination with an electron. (I assume, neutral trihydrogen does not exist, so i also would be glad about the released energy in the reaction$H_{3}^{+}+e^{-}\rightarrow H_{2}+H$ which i assume to happen if the ion hits a metallic surface!) Thanks, HRM --193.174.254.3 (talk) 13:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

See Triatomic hydrogen which can exist very briefly. One reference gives -3.777 eV for lowest state of Triatomic hydrogen. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:09, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Ortho vs. Para

Which of the two is more stable? I'd guess para, due to the Pauli Exclusion Principle and the fact that para-H₂ is also more stable than the ortho version. Has anyone come up with a definitive answer? Stonemason89 (talk) 14:40, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

How can there be three different electron spins?

How can H₃⁺ have three different electron spins, when it has only two electrons? Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 21:50, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Did you read the ortho para section which says the spins are in the protons, and that there are only two distinct ones? The electrons spins will be U and D fitting with the Pauli exclusion principal. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Gracias, señorita. Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 22:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

As compensation for that Mr Up, you can update the positronium article with information about the attempts to prolong its life, and weigh it. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:05, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Central Molecular Zone

History section refers to Central Molecular Zone but had to search outside Wikipedia to understand. Maybe needs a reference? Tiddy (talk) 07:45, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Destruction reactions

The paragraph on destruction of H₃⁺ mentions a few ways in which the particle is destructed. I was amazed to see not only the particle, but also its charge being destructed. Who knows where did it go? T.vanschaik (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2013 (UTC).

The mentioned charge destruction not only aplies to reactions of H₃⁺, but also to those of H₃O⁺! T.vanschaik (talk) 07:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Only a cosmic ray?

The article says "H₂⁺ can only be produced in interstellar space by the ionization of H₂ by a cosmic ray." But surely a starlight photon can do that too? The energy can't be that high...--Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:21, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

IIRC the ionization energy of H₂ is about 15 eV, which would be about 80 nm, which is in the far-but-not-too-far ultraviolet range. Isn't that normal in starlight? Should the article be fixed? --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:32, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

See if you can find a reference on the topic. "only" sounds too limiting in this case. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:53, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

What I read: H₂ is mainly in dense molecular clouds. UV light is rapidly absorbed on the edges, but cosmic rays can penetrate deeply and can ionise many molecules. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)